Tom Rath | LIFE’S GREAT QUESTION: Discover How You Contribute to the World

Audio Transcription

Speaker 1:
Devin on today’s show, we are interviewing a guest who blows my mind. Are you ready for this guest? Oh yeah. This guest, he has sold a lot of books. Let me ask you this. How many books does somebody have to sell to impress you in your mind? How many books? I don’t like. Maybe a couple million. So the guy’s sold 2 million books. Would you be impressed? I think so. What if he’s sold 3 million books? Would you be impressed? Definitely 5 million. Yeah. 6 million. Oh yes. Seven yes. Hey. Oh yeah. Nine Oh yeah. 10 this guy Tom RAF. Look him up. Tom RAF. This guy has sold over 10 million copies of his books on Amazon. He’s the author of the all time Amazon bestselling book of all time. What? 10 million books this guy and check this out. He at a very young age, was told that he was not gonna live a long time. Whoa. He had a terminal illness, but he’s still alive. That’s incredible. And he’s gone beyond just surviving to thriving. His name is Tom wrath, and he is the opposite of the main character from the star Trek two, the wrath of Khan,

Speaker 2:
Devin. Whereas Khan in the movie star Trek two had a desire to take over the world by using his bitterness and enslaved people. Tom Rath wants to empower people and teach them how they can succeed in their life. That sounds like a better guy to me, whereas Khan was always arguing and always trying to have diabolical schemes to, to end the planet in the world to kill everybody. Tom Rath is a great dude. Yeah. So if I had to pick, I mean, if we had like a pickup basketball game or we’re trying to pick, you know, who are we going to pick to be on our next podcast to encourage our listeners? I don’t know that I would choose a con who sounds a little angry in this clip. It’s like to having like a hemorrhoid

Speaker 3:
Flare up. You can’t get from Hills I stabbing or taping and burning or burning down bit.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, it definitely, I do think that Tom Rath is probably a little better of a podcast choice than the main character from the wrath of [inaudible]. I think so. And in fact they spell their names differently to wrath for the wrath of Khan, star Trek. It’s w. R a. T. H. Where’s Tom? Wrath is Tom, R. A. T. H. a. D. these, these are the fun facts you can share with your wife tonight. You’re welcome.

Speaker 1:
[Inaudible]. Yes, yes, yes and yes. Thrive nation. On this occasion we are interviewing the man [inaudible]

Speaker 2:
And the New York times bestselling author Tom Rath. Welcome onto the thrive time show. How are you sir? I’m doing good. How about you? Well, I’m fired up. It’s, it’s the wrath of Tom Rath right here on the thrive time show. This is exciting.

Tom Rath:
Thank you. So guys wrap is kind of an angry sounding name, which doesn’t really fit the topics I work [inaudible]

Speaker 2:
I know, but I just feel it’s, it’s a good, it’s a good irony there. The wrath of con’s, my favorite movie, and I don’t get to say the word wrath enough and you spell it differently, but we’ll, we’ll continue.

Speaker 6:
No,

Speaker 2:
You have had a ton of success, but if it’s okay, could we start off at the very beginning? I mean, how did you get started with your career? What, what, what I guess, what was life like growing up for you?

Tom Rath:
Well, you know, I, I kind of got into this line of work by a set of kind of extraordinary circumstances where I was growing up in a kind of a normal middle class family in the Midwest, grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. And when I was about 16 years old, I was diagnosed with a real rare disorder. And make a long story short, I’d kind of started battling cancer at a young age because I learned I had a centrally rare genetic mutation that shuts off one of the body’s most powerful tumor suppressing genes. And so I, by the time I was roughly 25 years old, I’d kind of become an expert in battling cancer. And so and I’d been working with my grandfather for a few years there on some different projects at a college and he asked me when he was in the middle of battling cancer in his last year of life if I’d help him and working on a book that he thought we could put together in a span of two months there. And so that to make that long story kind of short in his last year of life, we worked on a book together called helpful is your bucket that I really resonated with a lot of people, started a whole series of books and sort of pretty young age. It got me into that whole line of work.

Speaker 2:
You you know, at the age of 16 got diagnosed with something that a lot of people thought you wouldn’t live a long time there. Was there any estimates for how long people thought you were going to live?

Tom Rath:
Yeah. You know, the doctors back then weren’t that. Sure. They they said, you know, I had lost an eye to cancer when I was 16 and head, they said, you will battle cancer in your brain, your spine, your kidneys, your pancreas, all these areas. And I remember going back and looking through some research back then and I found one study suggesting my over-under was about 37 years. So I did some thinking back then at that point about, you know, I know I’ve got at least until I’m 35 or 40, roughly,

Speaker 2:
You know, I, I just, I want to dive into your, to your new book and I also want the people to know why we want to dive into the book. You know, kind of the, the man behind the, the, the story here. When did you feel like you were starting to gain some traction with your career? What, what age did you feel like you were going, okay, I, I maybe maybe have a plan here. Maybe it’s working.

Tom Rath:
You know, I think the, in the earliest days, the first couple of years of my work and research with my grandfather, I mentioned Don Clifton, we’re working on, basically our goal was to take all these interviews he’d been doing to help people uncover their natural talents and their strengths and figure out if we could create an online version that would help even more people to uncover their strengths using the internet. Because this was back in about 1999 roughly. And I think I knew that that approach was really starting to work and resonate when at first we were wondering, you know, can we get a thousand or 10,000 people to use this tool and uncover their strengths? And as soon as we hit, I believe it was about a hundred thousand after the first few years, that was when we knew we might be onto something that was really making a difference. And it was fun for both my grandfather and I because every morning we’d get a report out of an automated system showing that those numbers are going from a thousand to 10,000 to a hundred thousand and then eventually to a million.

Speaker 2:
You know, I, I believe if I’m correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the strength strength finders 2.0 was the or is the Amazon all time best-selling nonfiction book? Am I correct?

Tom Rath:
Yeah, that book sold more copies according to Amazon than any high nonfiction books since they launched their company. So, and I believe I just mentioned in the StrengthsFinder piece that 20 million people have now gone through the online tool associated with that book and then Ava and cover their strengths. So that was, that was way beyond my imagination. And I think even beyond Dawn’s imagination, we started working on that project

Speaker 2:
Pre podcasts or pre, you know, pre 20, 20. How did you market that book? Did you, what was your, your primary strategy? Cause the book, everyone who’s read it, it says, Oh, the book is awesome, but how did you get the book out there?

Tom Rath:
Yeah. You know, back then we, it was it originally the whole thing started with college students. And our original goal was to help kids their freshman year in college, figuring out how they could apply their strengths to pick classes and figure out what to major in and how to make friends their first year of college and so forth. And so we really started right there and said, you know, if we start with college freshmen, it might take a few years, but eventually you’ll get kids all across the campus talking about it and getting the conversation going. And then a year or two after that, it really evolved where work teams started having the conversation and going through StrengthsFinder and managers would share that with everyone who worked on a team. And it began to create a language that people could use to get to know one another off faster. And I think it was really kind of in the word of mouth around the language of that started to take off.

Speaker 2:
So you, you recently were inspired to write another book, this book called life’s great question, discover how you contribute to the world. What, what first inspired you to, to write life’s great question.

Tom Rath:
I think what inspired me most was when I took a step back three, four years ago, I realized that we’ve all done a lot of self exploration, self-development, looking inward. We’ve all been through programs that are supposed to make us better workers that are members of our community, whatever it might be. Yeah. But it seems that we really haven’t spent enough time looking at the demand side of the equation and asking what the world needs and what the community around us needs and what our teams need and what our organizations need and our business coach clients and our customers. So I decided to do a really deep dive and in having an intensive focus for the last few years on how can we help people to essentially match who they are with what the world needs. Because I, I hear from so many people right now who are just kind of lost in their work. They’re trying to figure out what to do. They don’t know if the work they do each day is really making a difference for the people they care about most and they want to feel more of a sense of connection to their community and the people around them.

Speaker 2:
So in this new book or when you write any book, what was your process like for writing it? I mean, do you have like a certain chair you sit in or a certain place you sit down at and you’d like to dictate? I just want to want to get into your, your process cause you do so much research when you put your books together.

Tom Rath:
Yeah. For this, for this book in particular, I went out to a cabin near here near DC where I live and spent several days intensively just trying to get all my thoughts out there. And I do use voice dictation software to start with and just get all my thoughts on a computer screen essentially. So I spent several weeks doing that and then you know, that that takes maybe 10% of the time and then really 90% of the effort is trying to sequence and string together and edit and work through how to make sense of a lot of those raw thoughts so that they can hopefully be helpful to people. And then, you know, half the time that I’ve spent on this whole project has been in putting together a companion website that helps people to actually go through their own experience and their own history and put together a profile of how they can be most useful for their family, for the teams that they’re on and for their communities.

Speaker 2:
What is the companion website where people can go visit right now?

Tom Rath:
Yeah, the companion website is called contrib AFI and the whole goal there is for each reader to be able to log on and put together essentially a more human version of a resume. So it helps them to assemble a profile of what are the big roles they play in life. What have been the most influential experiences throughout their lifetime that has shaped who they are. And then they go through a series of 50, a multiple choice questions that prioritize how they want to contribute to the current team that they’re on. And my, my hope with that is that it gives readers a one page kind of baseball card takeaway that’s a far more human version of who they are and why they do what they do. Then the resumes and job descriptions you see today that, I mean to be really honest is resumes and job descriptions and LinkedIn profiles couldn’t be much less personal if we scripted it to be so

Speaker 2:
You know, you on, on your website contribute by you say who you are meets what the world needs a new method for focusing on what matters most. I would like to ask you this and I know no judgment, I just want to get your take because you have been researching this for a long time and your mind, what matters least, like what are people focused on that is a complete Epic waste of time. Most of the time. I mean, what are some things where you sit down and you, you sit down with someone one on one who’s trying to figure out, you know, what they can do that matters the most. What are you finding that people focused on or what do you find that people waste their time on the most?

Tom Rath:
I think the two things. One is on a daily basis, I think people waste the most time just being responsive instead of focusing on efforts that will really continue to contribute to others and people in their community. So that’s more on a day to day level. On a broad career level, I think people are too focused on passion and [inaudible]. There’s often you hear the career advice about focusing on your passion and what I’ve learned from interviewing a lot of experts in studying this topic pretty intensively is you’re much better off following where you can make the greatest contribution instead of looking at your passions. The problem with passions is that that just assumes that you’re the center of the whole world and everything else better fall in line around you. And most of us have realized by the time you’re my age at least, that the world doesn’t work that way very often.

Speaker 2:
So if somebody else is out there today, thinking about picking up a copy of this new book here, life’s great question. What do you feel like they’re missing out on if they don’t pick up a copy of the book?

Tom Rath:
I think that they might spend too much time over the next few years unintentionally looking inward and inside their own head instead of focusing their time and energy each day on the very practical contribution it makes to another person, which when I wake up each day, I’ve tried to ask myself this great question from Dr. Martin Luther King every morning, which is, what are you doing for others? Dr. King described that as life’s most persistent and urgent question. And I think the urgent part of it is important because when you orient your day around what you’re going to spend time on, that will positively influence the life of at least one other human being. It gets you out of your own head. It makes each day smoother and less stressful. And I think it leads to days where you’re contributing to things that continue to grow exponentially tomorrow, a week from now, a from now, a decade from now. When you’re not actively working on those pursuits.

Speaker 2:
Tom, you’ve written that none of us truly knows how much more time we have after living more than 25 years since my diagnosis on what some see as borrowed time, I’ve learned that time is more valuable when you see your mortality on the horizon. I’d love for you to deep dive into this uncomfortable thought of sitting down and really marinating on our mortality and how little time we actually have left.

Tom Rath:
Yeah. You know, it’s interesting you’re asking about that because for most of my life I thought that, you know, the, all the constant reminders of my mortality that I have are probably unique to me. And yes, I’ve used that for motivation, but I haven’t really recommended it to anyone else. That means said, as I was working on this book and doing some research, it turns out that my experience is the most common one where when young people, after the age of 12 battle a life threatening illness, they actually on average, emerge more resilient and with better wellbeing than people who don’t face a similar challenge at that age because of that experience. And so, as I’ve dug into that a little bit more, I essentially realized that, you know, I’ve, I’ve always acted like I have today because I know I may not have tomorrow or a year from now or another decade. And I think it’s in all of our best interests to not put things off till tomorrow because it’s such an easy thing to do. It’s a path of least resistance. But when you do that, you don’t spend time focusing today on the people who matter most on the friends and family members and on the people that you serve.

Speaker 2:
I feel like again, and if you, you disagree, I mean, this is, this is the Tom Rath show. So I, I, you, you could, you, you disagree. You’re the expert. I have been looking at the Nielsen research that I’ve seen where it says the average person is on their phone 11.3 hours per day. You know the New York times has an article. New York post had one that shows the average person has their TV turned on 5.2 hours per day. I mean, there’s all sorts of stats about perpetual distraction in this new digital world there. What would you, do you see this as a problem? Do you see this as a problem of a perpetual distraction? Does this seem like this is getting people keeping people from ever finding their true significance into contributing to the planet if they’re spending their whole day on their smartphone?

Tom Rath:
Yes. It’s an extraordinary problem. Yeah.

Speaker 6:
[Inaudible]

Tom Rath:
You know, I did, I did some work as a part of a documentary I created on this topic where I went and interviewed some of the world’s leading experts about what it takes to really be fully charged during the day, each day. And we did a piece in there on what happens when we have our phone out. And if I take my phone out and set it on the table, whether that’s in a meeting room or at the dinner table with my kids and my wife, that sends an implicit message that that device comes before everyone around the table and it’s statistically degrades the quality of the conversation for everyone sitting around the, if I take, if I take that device when I’m working on a project on my own and just set it out where I can see it, it degrades my cognitive performance on a variety of tasks by 10 to 15%.

Tom Rath:
So even if the darn thing is turned off, it’s not buzzing. It’s not dinging, it’s not vibrating. It’s not tactically interfering with what’s going on in the environment. It sends an implicit message in a signal to ourselves that ruins the quality of our thought and our interactions in our conversation. So that the soon as I read that research four or five years ago, it really changed all of my own patterns and my own behaviors where I would, I’ll do everything possible to not take a phone out, to not have it visible or present when I’m at dinner with my kids or when I’m in a meeting with people because I’ve realized the message that sands and you know, on the upside, what I’ve seen and observed over the last couple of years is that I think it means that the people who are able to keep their devices stowed away, their mouths, their mouths closed and ask really good questions and genuinely listen to those responses. Those are going to be the mentors and leaders and people that we look to for guidance and role modeling over the next 10 to 25 years.

Speaker 2:
I have had the opportunity through this show to sit down and spend time with, with billionaires, you know, next week I think we’re interviewing the founder of the cofounder, I’m sorry, of a square. We’ve got the co founder of Netflix, great guys like yourself. And I have found that the most successful people use their smart phone. The least. It’s almost like the smart phone is making people dumb, you know, so it’s like somebody will pick up a copy of your new book, a life’s great question, and they’ll sit down to read it while their smartphone is up and out, you know, not on airplane mode, up and out, you know, and then they get the little message, they look at it and it’s someone saying, Hey, you know, could you call me back? So they kind of forgot what they just read in your book.

Speaker 2:
So then they go back and then they go to your, your great website you built and they start to fill out the form at [inaudible]. But then they get a social media update from somebody that, you know, somebody who said something they didn’t agree with politically and then they’re in that doom. There a Migdal is constantly, you know, that he, the emotional processing centers constantly engaged. Do you find that it is a, also a, a problem when people can’t stop the, the social media interaction? Is this a problem too for living a purposeful life that this, this, you know, the constant outrage on social media?

Tom Rath:
It is. And you know, I, the one thing I like to challenge leaders and different audiences to do is to simply be known for not using their phone and not being the one that’s reacting. Because I think it’s kind of like smoking day draw a parallel where we have to turn the stigma around in a good way where, you know, you used to be cool to be the one glamorous out smoking and now you have to go hide buying a loading dock, buying a dumpster. Right. And I think we’ve got to try and do that with phones where the, it’s a status symbol to not have to be checking your phone and updating your status constantly. And that if we can build that in where it’s like you’re, you just described it so perfectly where the leaders I admire most and the people I admire most and spend time with, boy, they give me the most genuine and undistracted time relative to anyone else that I spend time with. And I think once people start to observe and see that that’s the new ideal, hopefully it’ll start to reverse that conversation a bit.

Speaker 2:
So somebody right now is focused, their phone is off their focus, they’re listening and they’re going, I think I need to pick up a copy of this book. But they, Tom, they almost need, I wouldn’t say a sales pitch, but we’ve got a lot of entrepreneurs. I mean our half million listeners are entrepreneurs, so they appreciate a good pitch or they appreciate a good call to action. Why do you feel like everybody should pick up a copy of this book and devour it?

Tom Rath:
Well, let me start with the honest caveat that I’m probably the worst person. I know it’s selling my own books. I, I get berated by publicists and fellow authors on a daily basis. So I admire, I’m in a bad position to do that. That being said, I do, I do think that my team’s help to put together a really useful tool as a part of this book. So it’s not just go focus on other people. It’s, here’s exactly how you can use the company website to map out how you can take who you are and what you do best, and make sure that that’s having a positive and meaningful influence for the people you care about most on a daily basis. And that’s, you know, of all the books I’ve worked on, I’m always trying to make them very practical and have some tools and things that people can do. And so it’s not just a book that you’ll read and put down. It’s a book that hopefully it’ll change the way you go about your day. For the foreseeable future.

Speaker 2:
I am a, a, a shameless capitalist and one who believes that the market is undefeated and essentially if people like a book and they, they’re going to tell somebody else about the book and then, you know, you vote with your dollars. And my understanding is you’ve sold an insane amount of books. Have you sold 10 million copies? Am I getting that right? I mean, how many copies of books have you sold, dude, you know? Yeah, I think that’s, that’s a, that’s a fair total across all the books I’ve worked on. That’s unbelievable. That’s unbelievable. And thrive nation, well knowledge bomb right there. If you’ve sold 10 million somethings, it turns out people like them, you know, I mean people won’t, I mean you’re not paying people to buy your books, right, Tom? No, it’s,

Tom Rath:
I think back to your point, it’s one of the things that’s been refreshing for me is that if you do really good work, and I was just talking to a couple authors who I admire a great deal about this last week. If you do good work and you get it out there, sure. It takes a little bit to get a basic sense of awareness, but then it is all about word of, and it’s about, yeah. Can you put something together? One person recommends to another. And I actually just said to my publisher this morning, we were talking about it, that one of the best signals I’ve seen in the first weeks of launching this new book is that people are coming to us and saying, Oh, my manager or my manager said I need to go do this activity. So we can talk about it as a team. And I think once you create more dialogue between people about how they can be effective, that means it’s starting to create an important conversation.

Speaker 2:
You, you are a proactive man. And as you’ve had more success, more people reach out to you. I mean, if even 1% of the people who’ve bought one of your books reached out to you of this year, you’d be a busy man. I mean, so you’ve got a lot of demands on your time. How do you organize the first four hours of your day and what time do you wake up every day?

Tom Rath:
Yeah, I usually wake up about seven o’clock. I’ve, you know, one of the books I wrote was called eat, move, sleep. And the big lesson I learned there about five years ago is I have to work back to make sure that I have an opportunity to get at least seven or eight hours of good sleep. So when I’m on the road and traveling, I know I have to allocate 10 hours because it’s just a lot harder to do when you’re moving around. So I usually get up around seven o’clock and you know, the first thing I do is ask my kids if they got a good night’s sleep. If not, we work back from why they didn’t. So we’ve created, instead of sending our kids to bed when they’re bad, we’ve created a family value where that’s at the top of the list.

Tom Rath:
So I usually have breakfast and help get my kids out to school. And then the first thing I do is to go through and read anywhere between 5,900 abstracts about health and wellbeing and effective workplaces. So I just am a sponge for as much knowledge as I can get and make sure to spend the first part of my time reading and digesting as much research, most put on health and wellbeing as I can. And then I spend a little bit of time writing and working on projects that I know are substantive and important and I do almost everything possible. I, during a normal work day to put off the responsive piece about responding to emails and calls and messages in social media and alike that I need to until mid day or usually, ideally later in the afternoon so that those thoughts aren’t preoccupying my time early on in the day.

Speaker 2:
So you put the most important things first.

Tom Rath:
Yes. And I, you know, it’s also important to note, I wonder, I’m talking about this, I take this for granted now, but I spent the last four or five years every damn in my office working on a treadmill the whole time. So that keeps me active and thinking and moving throughout the day, which boy, that’s made a difference on days when I’m stuck in hotel rooms and airplanes. And I can’t be walking while I’m working. Yeah. Yeah. I almost feel hung over as a result of that.

Speaker 2:
I, I just want, I would like to clarify, what are things that are habits? Maybe one or two things, and again, you’ve written entire books about this, and I’m not trying to oversimplify, but there’s somebody out there listening who goes, you know, I just, I’m for a few habits. I know a few good ones. Just something you know, non-negotiables that you do everyday. Do you have a couple things you could share with the listeners? And I know you’ve written entire books about this, but just a couple of things where you say, these are rules, whether it’s like, I’m not going to eat this or I’m not going to do that, or I’m not going to, do you have a few habits you can share because you’ve had so much success?

Tom Rath:
Yeah. I mean, the big one is just to make sure that I’m, my body is in motion at least every 20 or 30 minutes. So I think it’s pretty clear from all the research I’ve read that the top performers work in bursts. So if I’m going to write or edit for 20 or 30 minutes or sometimes I’ll go ahead and do it for 50 minutes, but I know that out of every hour I need to be moving around. So if I’m on a conference call, I have a headset on, I’m walking around in circles. If I’m editing or responding to emails, I’m on a walking workstation the whole time. And so I think being active every hour at a minimum is one good benchmark. Setting up your meals so that you’re eating small snacks throughout the day and early on in the day in particular that are healthy for you and they give you good energy. I know I’ve learned from my work that you know, even with all my chronic health conditions, that’s not a very good motivator to skip a cheeseburger and French fries at lunches when that sounds good. But knowing that I need to have the energy to be effective at a meeting at four in the afternoon, or I need the energy to keep up with my nine year old son at five o’clock in the evening. That’s a good motivation to have a healthy lunch. So I use these short term incentives to help me make better longterm decisions.

Speaker 2:
Fun photo question I have here for you. You know, Steve jobs like to wear the same thing every day. I do too. I wear the same thing everyday is you know, Barack Obama, president Obama talked about how he, how he liked to wear the same thing every day. David Green, the, the founder of hobby lobby who I’ve spent some time with, he lives in a ridiculously or he drives a ridiculously old Jeep vehicle and lives on a very S lives way below his means. You know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll say super successful people have a, have an idiosyncrasy I found of some kind that it’s almost like a superpower, you know, that allows them to get stuff done. Do you have an idiosyncrasy or something that you do that’s kind of a kind of a quirky thing that is maybe a superpower?

Tom Rath:
You know, I do a lot of the things you were just talking about in terms of minimizing the cognitive fatigue of decisions throughout the day and cracking through things. And I mean, one of the, one of the things I’ve really learned is that I have structured my entire day as we’ve talked about to keep my energy up, to keep me active and to make sure that I’m not worrying about decisions that aren’t worth the time essentially and kind of mitigate minimizing regret throughout that time. And as I mentioned before, the one thing I’ve done more in the last two or three years, it’s really changed my routine is I ask myself each day, what are the things I’m going to work on today that will continue to have a lasting influence a week from now, a month from now, a generation from now when I’m no longer working on that. And I’ve found when I orient my day around that question, I end up spending a lot more time on the really meaningful projects and a lot less time just responding to all the flack flying through my computer screen each day.

Speaker 2:
Tom I appreciate your time so much and if you’re out there listening today, I encourage you to take two action steps today. One, pick up a copy of life’s great question. Discover how you contribute to the world. Again, pick up a copy of life’s great question. Discover how you contribute to the world. Pick up a copy of the book by Tom Rath and then go watch the movie. The wrath of Khan

Speaker 6:
[Inaudible].

Speaker 2:
Go watch the movie, the wrath of Khan. So you can watch a movie that is the antithesis of what Tom Rath stands for. You’ve got to watch star Trek two, the wrath of Khan. Have you seen the wrath of Khan? They are top not in recent memory. Now I need to go watch it. Oh yeah. Listeners and doing that, it is the complete opposite of the Tom Rath show. Watch the rapid con and pick up a copy of the new book. Life’s great question. Discover how you contribute to the world. Tom Rath, thank you so much for being on the show, my friend. Thanks so much. It’s been a pleasure and now without any further ed three

Speaker 6:
[Inaudible]

Speaker 7:
Pull it through the paint, wiggling it, see, wiggle it. Start with just touching the canvas. He was just the corner of the brush, just the corner and begin pushing, making the bristles bend slightly downward. You see there, see you there.

Speaker 6:
[Inaudible]

Speaker 2:
Devin, I think it’s time to move on. I don’t think we can hit the con sound effect anymore. There’s certain point it starts to lose its effect. You know what I mean? You play it too much. It’s like you’re overusing it, you know, I don’t want to do that. No.

Speaker 6:
[Inaudible] [inaudible]

Speaker 2:
I think we all know what we need right now in our life. We need one extra. Just one. Just some of us don’t have that resolution that we, you feel when you complete a task. He says, well, if it’s like we want it, it’s like those bubble wraps where you want to keep popping until you all the bubble bubbles have been popped. It’s Christmas day and you got a gift that required some assembly and you’ve popped all the things, but there’s a few more pops left in that bubble wrap and you just, you can’t move on until you have some type of completion. And so I’m willing to give you that satisfaction that only comes from hearing this sound clip. One more time.