MMA Fighter Justin Wren “The Big Pygmy” Shares How to Find the Vision for Your Life

Audio Transcription

Host:
All right. Thrive Nation. On today’s show we are interviewing Justin Wren. Justin Wren, welcome onto the show. How are you, sir?

Justin Wren:
Man, I’m doing great. Thank you so much for having me. This is an awesome opportunity to be on with you.

Host:
Well Justin, I want to ask you to kind of share with the listeners out there, some people are super familiar with your career and some of our entrepreneurs aren’t. Could you share with us what the world of professional mixed martial arts is all about? I mean, how did you first get involved in this?

Justin Wren:
Well, actually, I found the sport of mixed martial arts during a year in school that was probably the most that I had gotten bullied growing up. And so I grew up getting pretty heavily bullied. Sat at the lunch table by myself a lot of times. Got pelted in the back of the head with food, or chocolate milk spit wads, or people’s fists as they walked by. And so when I found MMA, the sport of mixed martial arts, I fell in love with it. But first I thought, these guys don’t get bullied. And so I was initially drew in because of that thought, these guys don’t get bullied. And then I fell in love with the chess match of it. Which mixed martial arts combines the Olympic sports of Greco-Roman and freestyle wrestling, Judo, TaeKwonDo, the Olympic style of boxing, that brings in kickboxing from Thailand, Muay-Thai, it brings in Jujitsu from both Brazil and Japan. So it’s just this melting pot of all these martial arts from around the world, and to me it’s like a human chess match. So I fell in love with it because of that.

Host:
How old were you when you first got involved in fighting, or MMA, or some sort of martial arts?

Justin Wren:
I found out about MMA when I was 13 years old, but at that time it wasn’t a real well-known sport. I think John McCain was calling it human cockfighting at the time, and so my parents weren’t very fond of it. And then I started the sport of wrestling at 15 years old.

Justin Wren:
So, I started wrestling at 15. I had two Olympic gold medalists that were my high school coaches, so I was really blessed by that and I got good quick. They made me a 10 time state champion, a five time all-American, a two time national champion in wrestling. I transferred out of high school to the Olympic training center, and then I started fighting shortly after that. It was about a year after being at the OTC and wrestling, I had an injury. And then with that injury I thought, I haven’t even gotten to do the sport that I love. My childhood dream was to be a fighter, so I jumped right into it at 19 years old.

Host:
And my understanding is that you jumped in professionally at the age of 19. Is that correct?

Justin Wren:
Yeah. I think the youngest guy I’ve ever fought was 28 years old, and I was 19 years old when I started fighting. I was on a reality TV show when I was 21, The Ultimate Fighter TV show. They were looking at me for some of the Pay-Per-View fights. I was kind of a young gun in the sport, but honestly I didn’t handle it very well. I fell into a life of addiction. I was basically a depressed, drunk drug addict for several years.

Host:
I initially heard about you on the Joe Rogan podcast, and on that podcast you were talking about battling a lot of addictions. Could you share with the listeners the low point, and what kind of addictions that you were, again, I don’t want to ask you something you’re not…I don’t want to paint you into a corner and asking you about some…What kind of addictions where you were you battling at that time?

Justin Wren:
It was a big addiction to drinking, but mainly it was Oxycontin and oxycodone, the time release and the quick release opiates. I had broke my elbow, I dislocated it, I tore my ulnar collateral ligament, and I had to get a tendon… a tendon from my hamstring was put into the ligament where my elbow was. It was a tough injury, and from that I got hooked on the pills. And four months waiting for surgery, got hooked on pills that only take like six or seven days to get addicted to. And then after that it just spiraled into where I would piggyback anything and everything. So lots of different drugs, and normally all at one time. So I would just…once I wasn’t sober, whatever was around, that’s what I would take. But mainly it was the pills.

Host:
What was the worst injury you’ve had so far? Was that the worst injury? Was there other injuries where you go, that was not good?

Justin Wren:
There’s been plenty of injuries, but that one was probably the worst of them. It took me out for over a year, and it took me out longer than that with the addiction that took place, and got me to a lung point to where I was so low that I went on an eight-week drug binge where I was a missing person. My mom and dad couldn’t find me, and my girlfriend at the time couldn’t find me, my best friend and roommate couldn’t find me for eight full weeks. And it got to the point where my best friend left me a voicemail and said, “I can’t believe you miss my wedding. I can’t believe my best man didn’t show up.” So I was basically that far gone to where I was just…this is a saying and it says “hurt people, hurt people”, and I was definitely one of those guys that couldn’t help but hurt people. So even the people that loved me the most, and that had never hurt me, only loved me, I couldn’t help but to hurt them. So I was in a very, very dark place.

Host:
I heard you say that God found you at the very bottom of the pit and then he showed you the way out of it. Can you explain for the listeners out there that aren’t familiar with what you mean by God? Do you call God a specific name, and what do you mean that God found you at the bottom?

Justin Wren:
I just say that for me, I wasn’t religious at all, and I still would say that I’m not a religious guy, but for me personally, a religion for God has never worked. But a relationship with God transformed my life. And so, that’s what I say is that a relationship with God, like a real, actual, tangible, just God I want to love you and I want to love people, and basically that’s the foundation that it’s all built on is love God, love people, and love yourself. Sometimes it’s the hardest thing to do is…I was always okay at loving people, but it’s been the hardest challenge for me to love myself. I think that God is good and he created us to love people. And so my faith, I’m a Christian and that has transformed my life.

Host:
I think when a lot of people hear the word Christian, I’m a Judaeo-Christian as well, when people hear that, right away the red flags go up and go, “Uh-oh, he’s going to judge us.” You know, that’s kind of a thought. I think some people have that thought, not everybody, but some people have that thought. You talk about a relationship, and as much as you can, I would love for you to describe what that relationship means. Are you talking to God throughout the day? Do you hear a voice? Do you have a feeling? Is it like a compass that points you in the right way morally? What does that relationship look like?

Justin Wren:
Well, for me it can be different every day. It can be, I like to wake up and start with worship music. I like to pray, but praying to me is more conversational. It’s not just talking at God. It’s actually also taking some time and listening. And it can be listening for his voice through worship, or through reading the Bible, but really I think it happens a lot of times for me just throughout the day, like little smiles or winks here or there that, hey, I’m on the right path and just feel like, hey, I need to go out of my way and do something kind for somebody else. And just having confirmation throughout the day that I’m supposed to do it.

Justin Wren:
For me, the craziest thing was I was a year into my faith, about 11 months into my faith, and 11 months sober and I decided to say a prayer, God, what do you want me to do with my life? And I know I can sound crazy. I know I can sound nuts. And honestly I felt like I might’ve been crazy for about three days…actually, for probably three weeks until this kind of thing happened and came true. It can sound nuts, and I don’t want to take too much time on it, but this is something I really don’t even share that much.

Justin Wren:
I said a prayer, God, what do you want me to do with my life? And I said that prayer and I got lit up with a vision. And the vision can sound nuts, it can sound crazy, and I know that. And I’ve said that like three or four times already cause I felt crazy. I saw myself in the rain forest, and I was walking down this forest and this foot path. I heard drumming, then I heard singing as I broke into this clearing in the rain forest and met these people. And the first guy I met had his ribs poking out, and I knew that he was sick, and he was coughing. I knew that he was hungry and thirsty, and I kind of observed these people and I didn’t meet or interact and talk with them, but I saw them and I knew that they’re hungry, thirsty, poor, sick, oppressed…I knew that they were enslaved, that they literally called somebody else master.

Justin Wren:
And then I came out of this vision and literally cried like I’ve never cried before in my life. So these people..I didn’t know who they were, I didn’t know where they were. And so for three days I felt crazy and I doubted, did I have some sort of mental break or some sort of digest? And I experimented with psychedelics and all sorts of stuff. But I said a prayer, I got an answer, and it was very confusing to me.

Justin Wren:
Three days later I meet this missionary guy named Caleb Bislow, a humanitarian that just wanted to make a difference in the world. And whenever I told Caleb the vision, I told him in detail, but I said that in the vision, the biggest thing I got was that these people felt forgotten. And whenever I said forgotten, he goes, “Man, if there’s anyone in this world that’s forgotten, it’s the Mbuti Pygmies.”

Justin Wren:
And I was like, “Who?”

Justin Wren:
He said, “They’re in the Congo.”

Justin Wren:
And I was like, “Where?”

Justin Wren:
I didn’t know where the Congo was. And Caleb said he had been there before, he was going back again, and that he wanted me to go with him. He said, “Look, if God gave you a vision, if you go I’ll go.” And I thought that sounded kind of nuts and crazy. He told me about the rebels to go to the airport we’re flying into, he told me that the dangers of Congo and how the Pygmies were literally being raped, and killed, and hunted, and literally even eaten. And the United Nations had confirmed it, that these people had been cannibalized. And he said, “If you go with me, I’ll go too.” And I was like, I don’t know about that. So anyways, three and a half weeks later, sorry, I’m making a story, kind of a rambling rant.

Host:
Hey, we reached out to you to have you on this show because we love your story. So you have the floor, my friend. I’m thoroughly interested and intrigued by your story. So you have the floor. Go as long as you want.

Justin Wren:
Oh, well thank you. This story is something I normally don’t share, so you pulled something out of me that I’m normally a bit timid with sharing. But, man, three and a half weeks go by, Caleb and I go to the Congo, and Caleb and a guy named Colin came with us. They both knew the vision, and we land on a grass runway. We get out, I’m walking, we drive, we get to this clearing in the forest and we get out and they say… or no, we get to a path in the forest, and they said, “There you go, that’s where the Pygmies are.”

Justin Wren:
We start this hike, and as we get closer we hear this drumming. As we get closer we hear this singing. And as we get into the village and meet this clearing, the first guy we meet has tuberculosis. He’s sick and he’s coughing and everything in that vision. Caleb’s grabbing my shoulder, Colin’s grabbing me saying, “This is your vision, this is come true.” And I remember just falling down into like a squatting position and being like, oh my gosh, what is this and why am I here? Who are these people? And what I didn’t know was that this would be the start of an initiative we started called Fight for the Forgotten. The chief pulled us to the side and he said, “Look, everyone else calls us the forest people, but we call ourselves the forgotten.” And whenever he said forgotten, something resonated in me. I think I started to tear up and cry right there with them. Not I think, I know I did. Man, it just transformed my life.

Justin Wren:
So, sometimes whenever there’s wild and crazy things happening, and for me it comes down to my personal faith. And I think for our faith to be trusted, it needs to be tested. And so for me, I had this wild experience. It was a vision. I felt like a crazy man. I didn’t even want to tell people the vision. When I finally told the one person, he knew exactly who the people, where. We went. It came true, so much so that the people even called themselves forgotten…which I told the people, Caleb and Colin, these are the forgotten people. And so that moment is something I can’t really truly explain, except for it was a God moment in my life. And it came true. And from there my faith’s been tested, and I know I can trust it because it’s just led me on a path to, I think, where I’m supposed to be in life.

Host:
I would like to pile on team Justin here for a second. For those of you out there that aren’t Christians, there’s a Steve Jobs quote where he says, “Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently, they’re not fond of rules. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things. They push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world are the ones who do.” And I’d also like to introduce the listeners to a phrase called vocation, which means your calling. And everybody out there, once you find your calling, isn’t life awesome, Justin? Once you know that you’re doing what you are called to do, it’s not just a job anymore, it’s like this is what I’m supposed to do.

Justin Wren:
Yeah. That transformed everything for me. I was always a fighter and I fought against people, but really I was supposed to fight for people. And that mission driven life, or that calling, that purpose to fight for people…To live, to love and to fight for people, that has changed everything for me to know that, Hey, today, am I living my life to, to fight for another person, to give them a voice, to defend the weak, to love the unloved, to empower of the voiceless? What can I do today to add value to this world, to my country, to this community, to my neighbor, to my wife? How can I make a difference and how can I invest my life, my time, into something of meaning and value and purpose?

Justin Wren:
And that to me has been contagious. It’s something that’s drawn me in. It’s something that’s transformed my life, the way that I live, and it’s something that’s changed the lens that I view the world through. And so I love that Steve jobs quote you just quoted. And man, I think it’s true, the ones that think they can will change the world.

Host:
My understanding is that when you decided to step back in the ring, you decided to make every dollar from your win bonus, after you win a fight, to go back to the Pygmy people. Is that correct? And then what’s kind of your mindset as you’re training for your fights?

Justin Wren:
Yeah, so a fighter normally gets a show amount and a win amount. And so for me and my family, we keep the show amount for us and then when I win, and I get a win bonus, I get to give that away. So that’s been something highly motivating for me, even getting ready for this next fight. We have some projects and initiatives that we want to do both for the Pygmy people in Congo and in Uganda where we work, but also here stateside for bullying prevention. Fight for the Forgotten’s now expanded our mission from only the Pygmies in the Congo to also making a difference here in our own communities, and schools, and neighborhoods when it comes to bullying.

Justin Wren:
So yeah, when I fight and I win, it matters. It means something. And that’s I think a lot of athletes, pro athletes. You know, you watch the Olympics and you’ll see the champion on the podium. The one that won the gold medal said that he did it in memory of his mother, or in memory of his grandmother, or he did it for this purpose, this cause, this reason, this person. I think high-performers are always trying to raise the bar and add necessity to the reason they need to win. I think the person with the most reasons usually wins. And so I’m just adding that bar to me going back into fighting. As a former addict and in just not having that purpose, I needed to have a higher purpose, because beforehand I had a reason to use, win or lose. If I won, I wanted to celebrate all the hard work that it took, and dedication it took, to get there. If I lost, I wanted to erase the last six months it took to get ready for that fight. And so to have a reason bigger than myself going into the cage, it just adds fire. It adds fuel. Fight days, maybe I used to get nervous, but really I get excited. I feel like there’s a fire in my belly, or a fire in my bones, a fire in my heart to get in there and to perform well, because, what I do, we get to give that away and it gets to make a difference. So, it’s been something that for me personally has helped keep me grounded, helped keep me focused, and helped keep me motivated.

Host:
When you’re fighting, do you actually at that moment experience physical pain, or is so much adrenaline going through your veins at that point that you don’t experience the pain till later, or what’s that feel like when you’re in that fight?

Justin Wren:
Yeah, I think normally the pain’s delayed until after the fight. Maybe it’s right when the bell is over that you start feeling it, when that adrenaline’s done. You might feel a sting here or there from a punch and might be like, Ooh, that was a good one. But really you’re not thinking or focused on the pain at all during the fight. So maybe if there’s an injury, not hurt, but an injury you would feel it. But really ,the punches and submissions, and stuff like that, that’s more hurting than an injury.

Host:
For the listeners out there that are wanting to learn more about you and the causes that you’re involved in, could you tell us about when your next fight is and what website you’d want to direct all of our listeners to go to learn more about you and the causes that you are now getting behind with your fighting career?

Justin Wren:
Sure. I would say to anyone that wants to find out more, our hub is kind of fightfortheforgotten.org. On that website, www.fightfortheforgotten.org, we have some videos and we have some information there. People can follow me on social media. It’s @thebigpygmy. And that’s something that the Pygmies, they gave me a name [foreign language 00:20:28] And my fight name used to be the Viking, but now it’s just [foreign language 00:20:29] translated, which is “The Big Pygmy”. The average height for the Pygmies is four foot seven, and I’m six foot three, 260, so I’m kind of this big vanilla gorilla type guy walking in the forest.

Justin Wren:
And fighting, I hope I fight around the summertime. We’re talking mid-July now, and it might be potentially at WinStar Casino, which is on the border of Texas and Oklahoma.

Host:
How many more years do you plan on fighting for this particular cause, and any causes you’re involved in? How many more years do you anticipate fighting?

Justin Wren:
I think I could fight for another good five years. I could fight even longer than that. So I’m 31 now, and heavyweights, you know the heavyweight main event that happened just a couple of weeks ago, it was a 38 year old and a 40 year old, and they were heavy weights. So heavy weights have a little bit longer to fight than some of the little guys. Speed normally disappears faster than strength and power, and kind of heavyweights are more of the power and strength kind of guys, and they fight later in their careers. There’s been guys that have fought for the world championship at the highest level at 46 years old, at 42 years old. So I still got some time in me, but I want to go out on a good note. I want to raise as much awareness, raise as much funding as I can for the cause and go out hopefully on a high note.

Justin Wren:
So I’m pursuing right now the Bellator Heavyweight Championship. I want to be the world champion in Bellator, which is the competitor of the UFC. I really like their products. Their organization kind of sets themselves apart, and for the fighters it’s better for more competition, and more fight leagues out there than just one. So yeah, it’s kind of my fight career.

Host:
Now, my final question for you…I have your final question here for you. I want to respect your time there…is, has there been a specific mentor that’s made the most impact in your life or a specific book, outside of the Bible? Okay. We’ll say, well, I’m going to take the Bible as one of them. You say that’s a book recommendation. Is there another, a book or a specific mentor, that’s made the most impact in your life?

Justin Wren:
Sure. There’s been a lot of them, but I’ll go with…there’s been a few key ones, but one of the few key ones is a guy that’s been a guest on your podcast. His name is Craig Groeschel. He’s my pastor and he’s a phenomenal leadership coach, and he’s built an incredible organization. It’s I think the largest church in America, but that’s not what he’s about. He’s about it being a bunch of small churches that meet in many locations, impact the most amount of lives. And so he’s got a lot of great books out there. One of them is his new one called ‘Hope in the Dark’, and then he also introduced me to another author, just by having them at the church, and he had a book. The pastor named Jentezen Franklin, and Jentezen Franklin had a book that’s called ‘Love, Like You’ve Never Been Hurt’. And so those two books have been really great for me right now, ‘Hope in the Dark’ and then ‘Love Like You’ve Never Been Hurt’.

Host:
And I am going to make sure that on today’s show, right as we’re doing this show, that Andrew’s going to be purchasing a copy of your book, ‘Fight for the Forgotten: How a Mixed Martial Artist Stopped Fighting for Himself and Started Fighting for Others’. Andrew’s going to buy one right now. Andrew, are you hitting… It looks like he’s hitting the buy button here. Are you hitting the buy button right now? Okay. He’s hitting the buy button right now. It is confirmed. We have purchased the book and I know the listeners out there, if you want to cheer for somebody who is truly fighting for the forgotten, purchase a copy of Justin’s book, ‘Fight for the Forgotten: How a Mixed Martial Artist Stopped Fighting for Himself and Started Fighting for Others’, today on Amazon or wherever great books are sold. Justin, thank you so much for being on today’s show, my friend.

Justin Wren:
Hey, thank you so much for having me. It was a real joy.

Host:
I look forward to never getting in the ring with you. I look forward to never disagreeing with you in person. I look forward to meeting you in person some day, because we’re in Tulsa and you are an Oklahomie as well, right? You’re an Oklahomie.

Justin Wren:
Yeah, man, I am. And if you come through Oklahoma city, you just need a big hug, hit me up. I’ll come out and give you a hug.

Host:
All right, man. Awesome. Well, Hey, good luck with your career my friend, and thank you for fighting for the forgotten.

Justin Wren:
Hey, thank you so much.

Host:
Take care.