ckson | Learn How to Manage Your Team Like Legendary NBA Coach, Phil Jackson | Former NBA Player, Coach & Executive, Winning 2 Championships with New York Knicks + 1

Audio Transcription

It’s about being able to take the sunlight and focus it through a magnifying glass and then bring the intensity level, but still with control. It’s being able to focus, instead of having energy that’s just thrown all around the place. And we do it all the time in this league. exuberant on the scores or on blocks or on guys jumping around bumping chests. That’s the kind of energy that we want to contain and focus on so that we can have a real good energy source

when we’re trying to direct it so it’s not straight all around. That’s a really important part of what meditation brings to this game. It’s not about limiting competitiveness or accepting defeat or anything else. Yes, life does go on, but it’s about how do you get to a place where you’re clear in your thinking so your moment of truth and the moment of action, you know how to act. You’re right there.

Broadcasting live from the center of the universe, it’s Business School Without the BS. Featuring optometrist turned entrepreneur, Dr. Robert Zellner with USSBA Entrepreneur of the Year, Clay Clark. It is the five time show, let your boom begin. Where we drop knowledge bombs for you in Portland. Teach the proven systems to make your ends, so you can produce the greenery like all the Oregon Sue will call you pregnant cause you got Benjamins Will call you bimboro cause you just bought a Benz

And then you’ll be bragging to your wife and kids That your wallet’s overweight but it used to be thin Chums away, this is Slade broadcasting with the zen With the focus locked in like San Quentin Can I get a B to the O, O to the M You’ve heard the rumors, he is I and I is him

He be the Z and I be the C Now it’s teaching business skills from plate to sea. We both grew up poor, but we’re poor no more. The goal of this show is to help you score. Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Dr. Z, I am super excited to be here with you today, my friend.

We have the NBA legend, the 5’3 basketball player in the National Basketball Association, Muggsy Bogues, has agreed to be on our podcast coming up soon. See, I’m so excited. I wonder what he’s going to want to talk about. What he wants to talk about? Challenges in life.

What do you think he would, what do you think is going to be, did he tell you what his topic was going to be? How everything was given to him. I’m in the process of writing the questions. Oh. For the interview.

Okay. And I can tell you the guy, he grew up in poverty. His father went to prison. His mom raised him. He’s five foot three. Now let’s think about this. He’s five foot three inches tall. He doesn’t have a dad. His mom doesn’t have the kind of money or the connections needed to send him to basketball camps, clinics, whatever. And this guy goes on to play not only in the National Basketball Association,

but to play at a very high level. To play in the league for 14 years. And Mark Cuban thought so much of the man that when he retired, Mark Cuban agreed to go ahead and pay him the next three years of his contract while he didn’t play, just because he liked the guy’s character. That’s incredible. I tell you what, now, I wonder when he played, they didn’t have him in the lineup sheet,

or the, you know, the, what do they call them? Statue. The statue, where they didn’t have him as 5’3″. They had him as what, 5’6″? You know they didn’t have him as 5’3″. He is definitely all of 5’3″.

When you look at the highlights of him playing, I remember the Hornets, the Charlotte Hornets back in the day, they were an expansion team. I remember watching, they had Larry Johnson, they had Alonzo Mourning, and then Muggsy Bogues. I remember watching their games going, how tall is that guy? But I mean, these are giants who are 7 feet tall, 6’6″.

6’8″, by the way, right now is the NBA average height. 6 foot 8. 6 foot 8. And he’s 5 foot 3. This guy was super popular when I was in middle school, so we were all tiny, so we were like, we all wanted to be Muggsy Bones.

He was the man. Can he dunk it? I forget, can he dunk it? He’s a ram, I don’t care. Well, Spud Webb could dunk. I knew Spud could.

Spud Webb could dunk, and he had a 44 inch vertical, so he could get up that high, but he didn’t have big hands. He had hands that were proportionate to his body, and so he had very, very small hands. Yeah. Unlike you, where your head is not… I mean, your head’s pretty large.

If my vertical leap was proportionate to my gourd, I would have a 95-inch foot. You’d be a little dunk with your feet. Now what we’re talking about today is somebody who has a massive, a massive mind. A guy who’s also massively tall, the NBA head coach for the Chicago Bulls and the Los Angeles Lakers Phil Jackson and in the coming shows what we’re doing is we’re breaking down The management philosophy of Phil Jackson you might say why well think about this for a second Michael Jordan won six NBA championships when he played for the Bulls

Kobe Bryant won five when he played for the Lakers but neither one of them won a single NBA championship without the management and coaching of Phil Jackson. That’s because he had a system that turned out champions year after year after year. I want to read a notable quotable from the book. I’m going to read a lot of notable quotables today. I want Z for you to break them down with your Zen mindset to business.

This is from page 92 of Phil Jackson’s book, 11 Rings. impossible for anyone to change unless he Thoroughly accepts who he is. I’ll repeat It’s virtually impossible for anyone to achieve unless he or she accepts who he or she is I wasn’t interested in becoming best friends with the players In fact, I think it’s important to maintain a certain distance

But I tried to develop genuine caring relationships with each player based on mutual respect compassion and with each player based on mutual respect, compassion, and trust. Transparency is key. All right Z, so here we go. You’re managing your office, you’re managing your businesses. I’m coaching, I’m coaching my office. Do you feel like this applies as a business owner that you can’t help anybody who’s not aware of who they

actually are? Yeah, it’s one of my core beliefs. Okay. And I say it all the time and anybody that’s out there that’s listening to any of our podcasts has probably heard it before, and that is that people change seldom. And that’s the reason why, is because a lot of people don’t want to really come to grips with who they are, because then they feel like they might have to change. I mean, you’re one of the few guys I know that has done a 180 in his life.

I mean, when I met you, come on, let’s call it what it is. I mean, you had on the baggy, the air loop earrings, the baggy clothes, the snarly face. I had a sweet subwoofer that compensated for my lack of coachability. It shook the building when you pulled up to pick up Vanessa from the office. And you were just mad. You looked like a kid that was ready for a fight.

That’s true. And I thought, wow. And then when I saw you years later, you were suited up. You were smart. You were intelligent. You were kind.

You just had almost a different… I thought, is this the same guy? I thought, what have you done with Clay Clark? Who are you? I think that… Did the Illuminati come by and exchange you with a Clay model?

This is something I’d like to share. Paul, have you ever been to Mexico? I have been to Mexico, yes sir. I just spoke at a church in Amarillo this past weekend. I was on Amarillo, Texas. Big shout out to Victory Church in Amarillo, a church of a little over a thousand people.

I was speaking to their three services. And what’s interesting is when you go to Amarillo, I would say probably 25% of the population speaks Spanish. Now when you go down to Cancun or you go down to Mexico on an all-inclusive resort, Z, probably 100% of the people down in Mexico speak Spanish. That is correct.

Z, it’s like they have a different word for everything. It’s almost like it’s a different language. Isn’t that weird? So weird. So I remember I lost my shoes in Cancun, and they got wet or something on a catamaran tour, and I went into their version of Walmart.

And I found myself doing this, and I laughed at myself when I left, because I’m like, I’m such an idiot. But what happens is, when you are a tourist, what you do is you walk in there with your pale skin and your lack of knowledge of how to speak Spanish and you want to get some shoes. I wanted to get some shoes. And so I said, do you guys know where I could find shoes?

And everyone looks at me and says, no hablo ingles. And I’m like, so this is what you do as a typical Caucasian American tourist. This is how you do it. What you do is you begin to talk slower and louder. And add O’s to the individual word. Do you know, O, where the shoes are?

You know, and then you realize they’re not understanding. You must speak louder. Excuse me, do you know where the shoes are? And pretty soon you realize, I’m just talking loud and slow to somebody who doesn’t speak my language. Correct.

And the world doesn’t get it, they don’t get it. You know what, I’m in Mexico, I might need to learn their language. Well, the language of success is coachability. If you’re out there demanding the world to pay you, but you’re not coachable, that’s a problem, see?

Absolutely. So the first half of that statement, I completely agree with. People change seldom and it really takes a motivated person and really self-aware person to change. It is possible, but it’s really up to them. You can’t change somebody. I have tried for years to do that and it’s unsuccessful.

The second part of that I think is very powerful too, and that is to have compassion and to have respect and to have likeability with your employees, i.e. his players, but not be so close to them. You need to trade them or we might say fire them or find them a new position. I want to get your take on this, because you and Paul both manage a large team. So I’ll start with you, Zee, and then I’ll go to Paul.

He says, I wasn’t interested in becoming friends with the players. In fact, Phil Jackson says, I think it’s important to maintain a certain distance. Correct. But I tried to develop genuine, caring relationships with each player based upon mutual respect, compassion and trust? Activities away from the office.

You have to be very careful who you do that with and the amount of time you do that with and sharing your personal information with people. Obviously I have a few of my employees that have kind of crossed over or are in that friend category, business category, that have actually invested in some of that. The suckle. The suckle.

You have to make the circle. They’ve invested. They’ve grabbed the pebble from my hand. How do you know when someone gets into the circle? How do you decide to let someone into the circle? Well, just through time, getting to know them.

Then you say, okay, this is the person I’ll let come a step closer. If they handle those responsibilities, you let them come a step closer. Then pretty soon, you know, you give them a nice sideways, appropriate hug. You didn’t say I had to wear pants. No one ever told me I had to wear pants to your house. That wasn’t in the job description.

But what you do is you, and you can only have so much time for so many. You have a few that are maybe in that friend zone, but most of them you just have a nice, respectful distance from them. You’re kind and polite to them, but you’re not like, hey man, so tell me about your life. Bro, you want to get together tonight and play some video games? Bro?

Bro? So Paul, I want to ask you this. You’re an accountant. Yes, sir. You have hood CPAs. You guys have grown it to be a very successful practice.

You have three locations. You’re in Claremore. You’re in Bartlesville. You’re in Tulsa. Talk to me about this. How do you keep a healthy distance from the employees while also building that mutual

respect that Phil Jackson talks about? Well, it’s just like Dr. Z said. You know, you can have a relationship and care about somebody and care about their concerns and their needs and help them get where they want to be, but still be guarded. You know, I’ve had that a couple of times, but most, like Dr. Z said, I don’t do things outside the office with staff. I very rarely with clients, and part of that’s kind of, you know, I was taught a long time ago that, you know,

there’s a certain professionalism that I bring to the office and I don’t necessarily want to have my staff or my clients see me walking around in my short, short cutoffs. Yes, but I know the Thriveth would. I know the Thriveth would love it when you would run around the office with them. What are those called now? They’re called mojitos.

If you have 14 mojitos and you wear those shorts again. Yeah, yeah. Muscle shirts and… Muscle shorts, that’s what they’re called. Bandicks, my Wendy’s. Well, and one thing that he was saying there is that you still have to build that rapport and those relationships with your employees or team members.

And so a way to do that is to be 100% in while you’re at work. And make your team members know that you’ve got their back when it comes to certain situations and that you’re all in with them. But like Zee and Paul said, don’t get too close outside of work. Be careful what you’re saying and who you’re saying it to. And, Clay, it works on the other side too. You know, two of my boys are married and one of them is practically married.

He’s still in college. But I’ve got a rule that their wives don’t work for me because I have a certain relationship with them and I have a relationship with my boys. And I can walk up and smack my boys in the back of the head and they may whip me. And you know, two minutes later, we’re great. But if I get onto their spouse that’s an employee and they’re not doing something, then that

creates tension on a personal level. So I like to have that separation. I can have the same relationship with my sons that are, okay, I’m your boss today, and tomorrow I’m your dad. And we can separate it, because I think guys can do that sometimes. And not that women can’t.

But I think there’s a separation that goes both ways. Now Phil Jackson, we come back from the break. Phil Jackson is talking about what happens when someone in your office begins to undermine the overall culture? What do you do when somebody begins to undermine and passively, aggressively attack the culture you’ve tried to build? And, Chuck, if a smell begins to fester in your bathroom, that can undermine your professionalism.

If the urinal begins to clog up and all of a sudden you have a yellow ocean, that could undermine your success. That’s no lemonade. Let me tell you this. You can’t let your bathrooms undermine your success. No, no, no.

You can’t. That’s why we called. That’s why DuPont called. That’s why Google called. That’s why Dr. Zellner called. That’s why Total Lending Concepts called.

That’s why New Star called. Classic Janitorial. Chuck, tell us about Classic Janitorial Services. Well, Classic Janitorial, you can get a hold of these guys at TheClassicClean.com. TheClassicClean.com, or call them at 918-671-2046. 918-671-2046.

They’re going to clean your high traffic flooring and carpet areas for free. Normally companies charge up to $1,000 for that. So, 918-671-2046, TheClassicClean.com. Stay tuned. Three, two, one, boom. Boom! You are now entering the dojo of Mojo and the Thrive Time Show.

Thrive Time Show on the microphone, what is this? Top of the iTunes charts in the category of business. Drilling down on business topics like we are a dentist. Providing you with mentorship like you are an apprentice. And we go so fast that you might get motion sickness. Grab a pen and pad to the lab, let’s get in this.

It’s time to best some fruit like some Florida Oasis. 3, 2, 1, here come the business ninjas! Sonic Boom! Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Thrive Nation, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show on your radio. Big shout out to anybody out there listening from Amarillo, Texas. Z, have you ever been to Amarillo, Texas? I was just there this weekend speaking at a great church called Victory Church out there.

Yes, fine smelling town as a matter of fact. Have you been to Amarillo? Yes, I have been to Amarillo. It’s kind of a desert climate. I got there by morning, I think. Zohan, have you actually been to Amarillo?

Amarillo by morning. I like your voice and I like Amarillo. I said the embassy suite. Why do you think I’m being disingenuous? I have been to Amarillo and it has a fine smell. I just want to know why did you go to Amarillo?

The cowboys that live out there say, you smell that smell? And I go, yeah. And they go, what’s it smell like? I go, cattle. And he goes, no, that’s the smell of money. Oh, yeah.

I really liked Amarillo. The weather was nice and dry. I like Amarillo. Kind of a desert climate. I didn’t dislike it. It’s near the second largest canyon in the United States.

Really? I did not know that. Yeah, like 10 miles, I guess like 15 miles outside of Amarillo, there is a massive canyon there. It’s a fun place to be, great downtown. What’s the name of the canyon, by the way?

I don’t know. Check it out. Google that, because when we throw out facts like that, we’ve got to make sure. We’ve got to make sure we cite the worst. We’ve got to make sure that the scribes listening to us know that we have fact-checked the facts. Pastor David, the head pastor of that church, or former head pastor, now there’s Pastor Brian and Jesse Gibson.

He apparently lives near the canyon. And it’s, Chuck, did you find it? I mean, pull it up. We should probably, what’s the name of it, Chuck? Palo Duro Canyon. P-A-L-O, space, then D-U-R-O, Canyon.

Canyon. This is the second largest in the United States. He says it’s, Texas is the Grand Canyon of Texas. I’m pulling up on the big screen. See, look at this. Oh, wow.

Oh, my goodness. That’s beautiful. Put down the show notes, Chuck. That’s a link to that. Yeah, put a link to that. That’ll make someone’s day brighter.

Just look at those pictures. There you go. Hey Chuck, can you pronounce that in Spanish? Because that’s… Palo duro. There you go.

Duro. Excuse me. It was an absolutely great experience there. So a big shout out to Amarillo and Victory Church. Thank you for tuning in. Now we’re talking about Phil Jackson’s book, 11 Rings, where he basically breaks down his

management philosophy that he used to win six NBA championships with the Chicago Bulls and five with the Los Angeles Lakers. Now, just so we’re all clear, when Phil Jackson took over the Bulls, Michael Jordan was already there. Okay? Scottie Pippen was already there.

But they weren’t winning championships. You know, when he took over the Lakers, Shaquille O’Neal was already there. Kobe Bryant was already there. But they were not winning championships. So he knows what he’s doing So this is what he says. I really love this on page 93 Z because this really fits into your management philosophy

Yeah, he says the secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided That’s a beautiful way to put it That is fantastic. I love that. So talk to me about this idea because I think a lot of people run a business and they think you can have one bad teammate and because they’re so talented, you should keep them

around. But I don’t think most business owners realize how much a bad teammate can absolutely, completely spoil the morale of the team, they can passively, aggressively destroy the vision of the team, and they can make it where the players on an NBA team or in an office just don’t want to come to work. Talk to me about why you have to punt people, and Z, talk to me about when you know it’s

time to punt people. Aren’t you glad that you don’t have to say, you know, like, we don’t have to have a whole team like a Marshall Morris’. Oh, yeah. Everybody has to be like 6’8 or higher. Right.

You know, and have to be able to dribble and have all those skill sets. I mean, really most businesses out there, the people that you’re looking for, you can find great people and train them what to do. Do a system. Do a system. And so therefore, you’re not having to be reliant upon putting up with some of these

characters say in the NBA. You know, like Phil Jackson had to do. But I think it’s an excellent thing to talk about, Clay, and that is, is they talk about a pinch of, you know, a bad apple can spoil the whole pie. Right. You know, a pinch of leaven does the whole loaf.

A pinch of what? Leaven. Oh, wow. Yeah. Do you have another one? Do you have one more?

You can do one more kind of analogy, one more metaphor. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander? No, no, no. No, okay. Sorry. No.

There’s another one, Zeb. Don’t go there. Okay, well, I have one. A good shot in the nose hurts the whole face. I don’t know. I don’t know.

What do you do? I don’t know. It’s like a fortune cookie. I have one. Taking one dump in your tent could destroy the camp. That is very true.

That’s just one. Just one. Just one. Just one could really destroy the morale in your camp. That metaphor really stings the nostrils. But I tell you what, Phil Jackson had a little bit different thing he had to do.

He had to win with those players. Now, you don’t have to. I don’t know how many times an employer thinks they’re married to, unless of course they are really married to the employee, to an employee. When they talk about the problems they’re having, and they’re sitting there almost crying in their beard to me, and you’re kind of going, and you look at me and go, fire them.

They look at you just a little horrified like, oh my gosh, but they’ve been with me for four years. They know all the passcodes. They know how to do this stuff. They don’t have to push the buttons. Can I ask a rude question on that?

How much of that right there do you feel is laziness? A lot of it. A lot of it is laziness, fear that they’re not going to find someone that they can get trained. They have this thing in their brain of, there’s no good people out there. I can’t find good help.

There’s absolutely no good people in the industry. I think a lot of people who are professionals, CPAs, optometrists, doctors, they’ll say it’s hard to find good people. People who are blue collar, mechanics, automotive repair, construction workers, they say it’s hard to find good people. Sales professionals say it’s hard to find good people.

Paul, I’m sure you’ve never seen a CPA say, oh, it’s hard to find good people. You just can’t. Constantly, constantly hear that from CPAs, from every client that I have that talks about expanding this. I just can’t find good people. I just got to settle.

I got to try to make do with what I got and get the best out of them. You got to be looking for them. But when you have a negative Nancy, when you have a bad Apple in the mix, you’ve got to get rid of them. You have to get rid of them. Otherwise, the health of your business, they will pull everybody down.

And the ones that are on the fence, they will make sure that they are starting to keep bad themselves. I know my last analogy was kind of gross, but I have one more for you. So true, though. If you have a cancerous growth on your body, like on your skin, you know I had a little mark on my forehead there, or on my head, on my massive cranium, and it looked like

it might be a precancerous thing, so I went to see a specialist to kind of remove the skin growth. I wasn’t emotional about the nostalgia of having had it on my head for 36 years. I’m just like, get it out of here! I think a lot of people let the cancer spread before it can easily be removed. And yeah, it might leave a little scarring, and it might not be that fun, but that little

discomfort is worth not dying. Amen to that. And I have a little something that might be uncomfortable. It might be uncomfortable to not go to Office Depot this week. It might be uncomfortable to not go buy your printing supplies and your office supplies. You might be in a hypnotic rhythm where you just love going.

It’s part of your rhythm. It’s part of your flow. But, Jeff, if we take a time out and we say, okay, I’m going to break the hypnotic rhythm of buying my own office supplies and print cartridges at a premium price, what’s a way I can save time and money? You could visit the guys at Onyx Imaging.

These guys, they are your one-stop business shop. They do same-and-next-day delivery of office supplies. They price match. They do their own printer manufacturing, printer cartridge manufacturing and it’s also with a lifetime warranty. 60% cheaper than the original parts.

Call these guys today, 918-627-6611. If your printer’s down, the team sits around. Get these guys out there. They are going to get your printer up and running, get your team back moving. 918-627-6611. OnyxImaging.com.

Stay tuned. No negative emotion, because that’s what business is. Always dominate, cause I got five kids. I will not lose, I don’t break for clues. They can talk about me, I can take that abuse. Here is the truth, while they make that excuse.

I’ll be up grinding, cause the scoreboard’s the truth. He is my mentor, like my Yoda dude. He showed me the force, like I was a young moose. Oh, a little Star Wars tribute there for you, see? Bro, you’re just bringing in the hot stuff. You’re like the Yoda dude.

Like I was the young Luke. What do you think about that? That’s incredible. It’s a Caucasian sensation. I mean, that takes me years to rhyme it all. If your career takes off as a rapper, you realize you’ll have to do concerts and you’ll

have to travel, and that is out of your wheelhouse. Watch out. Don’t make them so good. Here’s what I’m doing to start to get ready for that. I went to Amarillo this past week. I went out there, we drove, and we had a great time.

My wife and I now know about everything. I literally cannot… I don’t do well with elongated, ongoing conversation while traveling. So I don’t have a deeper layer. When I go there, I’m the kind of guy who wants to talk about, hey, that’s a cool phone. Great.

What can it do? But we start getting into, how does the phone work? Is it ethical for it to work? How do you feel about it working? I’m like, let’s go to the shallow end of the pool. So we listen to podcasts, a crazy amount of podcasts.

That’s good. Did you drive the whole time? Oh, dude, I was on fire on the way home. I got back from Amarillo with four daughters in the car and bathroom breaks included. How long do you think it took me to get back from Amarillo, Texas to Tulsa, Oklahoma? You sound like you’re in braggadocious mode.

I’m just saying it’s 14 hours. Some estimates would say it should take six hours to get home. You got home in four and a half hours. I got home in exactly five hours. I told the kids I’ll be home by 9 o’clock at night and I got home at 9 o’clock at night. 9-0-1 actually pulled in.

Wow. Sick. I wouldn’t call you a liar for one minute. It’s impressive. It’s impressive. I mean, it’s raw.

For all the members of the law enforcement community out there, you know how I did it. I did it using a hovercraft. I floated above the roads there. Drone’s lifting the car and just in the sky. It’s not verifiable, but that’s how I would like to… Did your wife have to get on to…

How many times… No, I should say, how many times did she… Because you’re the world’s worst driver. This is documented. It is. I was locked in, though.

I was listening to podcasts and I’m like, hold the wheel. Podcast. Hold the wheel. Podcast. Sometimes I would go, what am I supposed to be doing? I’m just listening to a podcast.

Get back on the road! But as a general rule, I was on it. I was very impressed. Wow. Now, see, a guy who was great at keeping his team on the road, focused. They’re on the road, but they’re focused.

They’re winning on the road. Because a lot of coaches will say in the NBA and in college, it’s hard to win on the road. A lot of NBA coaches say it’s hard to get players today to focus. Bill Jackson coached Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant to NBA championships. Think about this. Michael Jordan, his last two years of the Bulls, he said, I’m…

Broadcasting live from the center of the universe, it’s Business School Without the BS. Featuring optometrist turned entrepreneur, Dr. Robert Selner with USSBA Entrepreneur of the Year, Clay Clark. It is the five time show, let your boom begin. Where we drop knowledge bombs for you in Portland. Teach improving systems to make your ends. So you can produce the greenery like all the Oregon.

Sue will call you Franklin cause you got Benjamins We’ll call you Pimple Earl cause you just bought a Benz And then you’ll be bragging to your wife and kids That your wallet’s overweight but it used to be thin Chums away, this is Clay broadcasting with the zen With the focus locked in like San Quentin

Can I get a B to the O, O to the M You’ve heard the rumors, he is I and I is him He be the C and I be the C Now it’s teaching business skills from plate to C We both grew up poor but we’re poor no more Yes, yes, and yes.

Dr. Z, I am super excited to be here with you today, my friend. We have the NBA legend, the 5’3 basketball player in the National Basketball Association, Muggsy Bogues, has agreed to be on our podcast. Coming up soon, Z. I’m so excited! I wonder what he’s going to want to talk about.

What he wants to talk about? Challenges in life. What do you think he’s going to be? Did he tell you what his topic was going to be? How everything was given to him? I’m in the process of writing the questions for the interview.

I can tell you the guy, he grew up in poverty. His father went to prison. His mom raised him, he’s 5’3″. Now let’s think about this. He’s 5’3″. He doesn’t have a dad. His mom doesn’t have the kind of money or the connections needed to send him to

basketball camps, clinics, whatever. And this guy goes on to play not only in the National Basketball Association, but to play at a very high level. To play in the league for 14 years. And Mark Cuban thought so much of the man that when he retired, Mark Cuban agreed to go ahead and pay him the next three years of his contract while he didn’t play, just because he liked the guy’s character. That’s incredible.

I tell you what, now, I wonder when he played, they didn’t have him in the lineup sheet, or the, you know, the, what do they call it? The statue? The statue, they didn’t have him as 5’3″. They had him as what, 5’5″, 5’6″. They didn’t fudge it.

I mean, you know they didn’t have him as 5’3″. He is definitely all of 5’3″. I mean, when you look at the highlights of him playing, I remember the Hornets, the Charlotte Hornets back in the day, they were an expansion team. And I remember watching, they had Larry Johnson, they had Alonzo Mourning, and then Muggsy Bogues.

And I remember watching their games going, how tall is that guy? But I mean, these are giants who are 7 feet tall, 6’6″, 6’8″, by the way, right now is the NBA average height. 6’8″. 6’8″. And he’s 5’3″. This guy was super popular when I was in middle school.

So we were all tiny. So we were like, we all wanted to be Muggsy Bones. He was the man. Now, can he dunk it? I forget. Can he dunk it?

Well, Spud Webb could dunk. I knew Spud could. Spud Webb could dunk. And he had a 44-inch vertical. So he could get up that high, but he didn’t have big hands. He had hands that were proportionate to his body.

And so he had very, very small hands. Yeah. Unlike you, where your head is not…I mean, your head’s very large. No. If my vertical leap was proportionate to my gourd, I would have a 95-inch little moon. You’d be able to dunk with your feet.

Now, what we’re talking about today is somebody who has a massive, a massive mind. A guy who’s also massively tall, the NBA head coach for the Chicago Bulls and the Los Angeles Lakers’ Phil Jackson. In the coming shows, what we’re doing is we’re breaking down the management philosophy of Phil Jackson. You might say, why? Well, think about this for a second.

Michael Jordan won six NBA championships when he played for the Bulls. Kobe Bryant won five when he played for the Lakers. But neither one of them won a single NBA championship without the management and coaching of Phil Jackson, and that’s because he had a system that turned out champions year after year after year. I want to read a notable quotable from the book. I’m going to read a lot of notable quotables today, and I want Z for you to kind of break

them down with your Zen mindset to business. This is from page 92 of Phil Jackson’s book, 11 Rings. He says, it’s virtually impossible for anyone to achieve unless he or she accepts who he or she is. I wasn’t interested in becoming best friends with the players. In fact, I think it’s important to maintain a certain distance, but I tried to develop genuine caring

relationships with each player based on mutual respect, compassion, and trust. Transparency is key. All right, Z, so here we go. You’re managing your office. You’re managing your businesses. I’m coaching.

I’m coaching my office. Do you feel like this applies as a business owner, that you can’t help anybody who’s not aware of who they actually are? Yeah, it’s one of my core beliefs. And I say it all the time, and anybody that’s out there that’s listening to any of our podcasts has probably heard it before, and that is that people change seldom.

And that’s the reason why, is because a lot of people don’t want to really come to grips with who they are, because then they feel like they might have to change. I mean, you’re one of the few guys I know that has done a 180 in his life. I mean, when I met you, come on, let’s call it what it is. I mean, you had on the baggy, the air loop earrings, the baggy clothes, the snarly face. I had a sweet subwoofer that compensated for my lack of coachability.

It shook the building when you pulled up to pick up Vanessa from the office. And you were just mad. You looked like a kid that was ready for a fight. That’s true. And I thought, wow. And then when I saw you years later, you were suited up, you were smart, you were intelligent,

you were kind. You just had almost a different… I thought, it’s just the same guy. I thought, what have you done with Clay Clark? Who are you? I think that… Did the Illuminati come by and exchange you with a Clay model?

This is something I’d like to share. Paul, have you ever been to Mexico? I have been to Mexico, yes sir. I just spoke at a church in Amarillo this past weekend. I was on Amarillo, Texas. Big shout out to Victory Church in Amarillo, a church of a little over a thousand people

are speaking to their three services. And what’s interesting is when you go to Amarillo, I would say probably 25% of the population speaks Spanish. Now when you go down to Cancun, or you go down to Mexico on an all-inclusive resort, Z, probably 100% of the people down in Mexico speak Spanish. That’s correct.

Z, it’s like they have a different word for everything. It’s like it’s a different language. Isn’t that weird? So weird. So I remember I lost my shoes in Cancun. And I think they got wet or something on a catamaran tour.

And I went into their version of Walmart. And I found myself doing this and I laughed at myself when I left because I’m like, I’m such an idiot. But what happens is when you are a tourist, what you do is you walk in there with your pale skin and your lack of knowledge of how to speak Spanish and you want to get some shoes. I wanted to get some shoes.

And so I said, do you guys know where I could find shoes? And everyone looks at me and says, no hablo ingles. And I’m like, so this is what you do as a typical Caucasian American tourist. This is how you do it. What you do is you begin to talk slower and louder. And add O’s to the end of every word.

So you say, do you know, oh, where the shoes are? You know, and then you realize they’re not understanding, so you must speak louder. Excuse me, do you know where the shoes are? And pretty soon you realize, I’m just talking loud and slow to somebody who doesn’t speak my language, and the world doesn’t get it. They don’t get it.

You know what? I’m in Mexico. I might need to learn their language. Well, the language of success is coachability. And if you’re out there demanding the world to pay you, but you’re not coachable, that’s a problem, see.

Absolutely. So the first half of that statement, I completely agree with. People change seldom, and it really takes a motivated person and really self-aware person to change. It is possible, but it’s really up to them. You can’t change somebody.

I have tried for years to do that, and it’s unsuccessful. And the second part of that I think is very powerful too. And that is to have compassion, and to have respect, and to have likeability with your employees, i.e. his players, but not be so close to them that you needed to trade them, or we might say fire them,

or find them a new position. I want to get your take on this, because you and Paul both manage a large, large team. So I’ll start with you Zee and then I’ll go to Paul. He says, I wasn’t interested in becoming friends with the players. In fact, Phil Jackson says, I think it’s important to maintain a certain distance.

Correct. But I tried to develop genuine, caring relationships with each player based upon mutual respect, compassion and trust. So how do you keep a distance while also maintaining, Zee, mutual respect, compassion, and trust. Time, activities away from the office. You have to be very careful who you do that with and the amount of time you do that with

and sharing your personal information with people. Obviously, I have a few of my employees that have kind of crossed over or are in that friend category, business category, that have actually invested in some of the… The circle. They’ve invested. They grabbed the pebble from my hand. How do you know when someone enters a circle?

How do you decide to let someone into a circle? Well just through time, getting to know them. Then you say, okay, this is the person I’ll let come a step closer. And if they handle those responsibilities, you let them come a step closer. And then pretty soon, you know, you give them a nice, you know, sideways, appropriate hug. You didn’t say I had to wear pants.

No one ever told me I had to wear pants to your house. That wasn’t in the job description. But what you do is you, and then you can only have so much time for so many. So you have a few that are maybe in that friend zone, but most of them you just have a nice, respectful distance from them. You’re kind and polite to them, but you’re not like, hey man, so tell me about your life.

Bro, you want to get together tonight and play some video games, bro? Bro! So Paul, I want to ask you this. You’re an accountant. Yes, sir. You have hood CPAs.

You guys have grown it to be a very successful practice. You have three locations. You’re in Claremore, you’re in Bartlesville, you’re in Tulsa. Talk to me about this. How do you keep a healthy distance from the employees while also building that mutual respect that Phil Jackson talks about?

Well, it’s just like Dr. Z said. You can have a relationship and care about somebody and care about their concerns and their needs and help them get where they want to be, but still be guarded. You know, I’ve had that a couple of times. But most, like Dr. Z said, I don’t do things

outside the office with staff. I very rarely with clients. And part of that’s kind of, you know, I was taught a long time ago that there’s a certain professionalism that I bring to the office. And you know, I don’t necessarily

want to have my staff or my clients see me walking around in my short, short cutoffs. Yes, but I know the Thrive of Wood. I know the Thrive of Wood. I remember when you would run around the office with them. What are those called now?

They’re called mojitos. If you have 14 mojitos and you wear those shorts again. Yeah, yeah. I hear muscle shorts. Muscle shorts, that’s what they’re called. Band-aids.

Band-aids. Band-aids. Exactly right. My band-aid. My Wendy. Well, and one thing that he was saying there is that you still have to build that rapport

in those relationships with your employees or team members. And so a way to do that is to be 100% in while you’re at work. And make your team members know that you’ve got their back when it comes to certain situations and that you’re all in with them. But like Zia and Paul said, don’t get too close outside of work. Be careful what you’re saying and who you’re saying it to.

And Clay, it works on the other side too. You know, two of my boys are married and one of them is practically married. He’s still in college. But I’ve got a rule that their wives don’t work for me because I have a certain relationship with them and I have a relationship with my boys and I can walk up and smack my boys in the back of the head and they may whip me. And you know, two minutes later, we’re great. But if I get onto their spouse that’s an employee and they’re not doing something,

then that creates, you know, tension on a personal level. So I like to have that separation. I can have the same relationship with my sons that are, okay, I’m your boss today and tomorrow I’m your dad. And we can separate it because I think guys can do that sometimes. And not that women can’t. But I think there’s a separation that goes both ways.

Now Phil Jackson, we come back from the break, Phil Jackson is talking about what happens when someone in your office begins to undermine the overall culture. What do you do when somebody begins to undermine and passively aggressively attack the culture you’ve tried to build? If a smell begins to fester in your bathroom, that can undermine your professionalism. If the urinal begins to clog up and all of a sudden you have a yellow ocean, that could undermine your success.

That’s no lemonade. Let me tell you this. You can’t let your bathrooms undermine your success. No, no, no. You can’t. That’s why we called. That’s why DuPont called.

That’s why Google called. That’s why Dr. Zellner called. That’s why Total Ending Concepts called. That’s why Newstar called. Newstar called. Classic Janitorial.

Chuck, tell us about Classic Janitorial Services. Well, Classic Janitorial, you can get a hold of these guys at TheClassicClean.com. TheClassicClean.com. Or call them at 918-671-2046. 918-671-2046. They’re going to clean your high traffic, flooring,

and carpet areas for free. Normally, companies charge up to $1,000 for that. So 918-671-2046. BeClassicClean.com. Stay tuned. 3, 2, 1, boom.

You are now entering the dojo of Mojo and the Thrive Time Show. Thrive Time Show on the microphone, what is this? Top of the iTunes charts in the category of business. Drilling down on business topics like we are a dentist. Providing you with mentorship like you are an apprentice. And we go so fast that you might get motion sickness.

Grab a pen and pad to the lab, let’s get in this. Time to bear some fruit like some Florida oranges. 3, 2, 1, here come the business ninjas! Boom! Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Thrive Nation, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show on your radio.

Big shout out to anybody out there listening from Amarillo, Texas. Z, have you ever been to Amarillo, Texas? I was just there this weekend speaking at a great church called Victory Church out there. Yes, fine smelling town, as a matter of fact. Have you been to Amarillo? Yes, I have been to Amarillo.

It’s kind of a desert climate. I got there by morning, I think. Zilhon, have you actually been to Amarillo? Amarillo by morning. I like your voice and I like Amarillo. I stay at the Embassy Suites.

Why do you think I’m being disingenuous? I have been to Amarillo and it has a fine smell. I just want to know why did you go to Amarillo? The cowboys that live out there say, you smell that smell? I go, yeah. They go, what’s it smell like?

I go, cattle. They go, no, that’s the smell of money. Oh yeah. I really liked Amarillo. I like Amarillo. The weather is nice and dry.

I like Amarillo. Kind of a desert climate. I didn’t dislike it. It’s near the second largest canyon in the United States. Really? I did not know that.

Yeah, like 10 miles, I guess like 15 miles outside of Amarillo there is a massive canyon there. It’s a fun place to be, great downtown. What’s the name of the canyon, by the way? I don’t know. Chef, do you want to look it up? I’ll look it up, yep.

Chef will look it up there. Google that, because when we throw out facts like that, we’ve got to make sure. We’ve got to make sure we cite the words, Brian. That the subscribers listening to us know that we have fact-checked the facts. Pastor David, the head pastor of that church, or former head pastor, now there’s Pastor Brian and Jesse Gibson, he apparently lives near the canyon. And it’s a…

Chuck, did you find it? I mean, pull it up. We should probably… What’s the name of it, Chuck? Palo Duro Canyon. How do you spell it? P-A-L-O. Okay.

Space. Then D-U-R-O. Canyon. Canyon. This is the second largest in the United States. He says it’s… Texas is the Grand Canyon of Texas. I’m pulling up on the big screen. Look at this.

Oh, wow. Oh, my goodness. That’s beautiful. I mean, that’s incredible. Put down the show notes, Chuck. That’s a link to that. Let’s put a link to that. Yeah, that’s… That’ll make someone’s day brighter. Just look at those pictures.

Hey Chuck, can you pronounce that in Spanish? Palo duro. Palo duro. There you go. It was an absolutely great experience there. So a big shout out to Amarillo and Victory Church.

Thank you for tuning in. Now we’re talking about Phil Jackson’s book, Eleven Rings, where he basically breaks down his management philosophy that he used to win six NBA championships with the Chicago Bulls and five with the Los Angeles Lakers. So Phil, you’re a big fan of the NBA. You’re a big fan of the NBA.

You’re a big fan of the NBA. You’re a big fan of the NBA. Six NBA championships with the Chicago Bulls and five with the Los Angeles Lakers. Now, just so we’re all clear, when Phil Jackson took over the Bulls, Michael Jordan was already there. Okay?

Scottie Pippen was already there. But they weren’t winning championships. You know, when he took over the Lakers, Shaquille O’Neal was already there. Kobe Bryant was already there. But they were not winning championships. So he knows what he’s doing.

So this is what he says, and I really love this on page 93 Z, because this really fits into your management philosophy. He says, the secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided. That’s a beautiful way to put it. Is that not a beautiful way to put it?

That is fantastic. I love that. Talk to me about this idea because I think a lot of people run a business and they think you can have one bad teammate and because they’re so talented, you should keep them around. I don’t think most business owners realize how much a bad teammate can absolutely, completely

spoil the morale of the team. They can passively, aggressively destroy the vision of the team, and they can make it where the players on an NBA team or in an office just don’t want to come to work. Talk to me about why you have to punt people, and Z, talk to me about when you know it’s time to punt people. Aren’t you glad that you don’t have to say, you know, like, we don’t have to have a whole

team like a Marshall Morris’. Oh, yeah. Everybody has to be like 6’8 or higher. Right. You know, and have to be able to dribble and have all those skill sets. I mean, really, most businesses out there, the people that you’re looking for, you can

find great people and train them what to do. Do a system. Do a system. And so therefore, you’re not having to be reliant upon putting up with some of these characters, say in the NBA. Raw talent.

Like Phil Jackson had to do. But I think it’s an excellent thing to talk about, Clay, and that is, is they talk about a pinch of, you know, a bad apple can spoil the whole pie. Right. You know, a pinch of leaven does the whole loaf. A pinch of what?

Leaven. Oh wow. Do you have another one? Do you have one more? You can do one more kind of analogy, one more metaphor. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander?

No, no, no. Okay, sorry. No. There’s another one, Z. Don’t go there. Okay, well, I have one.

A good shot in the nose hurts the whole face. I don’t know. I don’t know. What do you do? It’s like a fortune cookie. I have one.

Taking one dump in your tent could destroy the camp. That is very true. That’s just something. Just one, just one could really destroy the morale in your camp. That metaphor really steams the nostrils. But I tell you what, you know, trying to, I mean, Phil Jackson had a little bit different

thing he had to do. He had to win with those players. Now, you don’t have to. I don’t know how many times an employer thinks they’re married to, unless of course they are really married to the employee, to an employee. You know, I don’t, you know, when they talk about the problems they’re having and they’re

sitting there just kind of almost crying in their beard to me and you’re kind of going, and you just look at me and go, fire them. And they look at you just a little horrified like, oh my gosh, but they’ve been with me for four years. They know all the passcodes. They know how to do this stuff.

They don’t push the buttons. I’m like, can I ask a rude question on that? How much of that right there do you feel is laziness in a lot of people? A lot of it. A lot of it’s laziness, fear that they’re not going to find someone that they can get trained.

They have this thing in their brain of, there’s no good people out there. I can’t find good help. There’s absolutely no good people. I think they’re all the good people are gone. People are the worst. People are totally different.

I think a lot of people, though, who are professionals, CPAs, optometrists, doctors, they’ll say it’s hard to find good people. People who are blue collar, mechanics, automotive repair, construction workers, they say it’s hard to find good people. Sales professionals say it’s hard to find good people. Paul, I’m sure you’ve never seen a CPA say, oh, it’s hard to find good people. You just can’t.

Constantly, constantly hear that from CPAs, from every client that I have that talks about expanding is, I just can’t find good people. I just got to settle. I got to try to make do with what I got and get the best out of them. You gotta be looking for them. But when you have a negative Nancy, when you have a bad Apple in the mix, you’ve got to get rid of them. You have to get rid of them. Otherwise,

the health of your business, they will pull everybody down. And they will, the ones that are on the fence, they will make sure that they are starting to do bad themselves. I know my last analogy was kind of gross, but I have one more for you. So true though. If you have a cancerous growth on your body, like on your skin, I had a little mark on my forehead

there, up there, or on my head, on my massive cranium. And it looked like it might be a precancerous thing, so I went to see a specialist to remove the skin growth. I wasn’t emotional about the nostalgia of having had it on my head for 36 years. I’m just like, get it out of here.

I think a lot of people let the cancer spread before it could easily be removed. And yeah, it might leave a little scarring, and it might not be that fun, but that little discomfort is worth not dying. Amen to that. And I have a little something that might be, you know, uncomfortable.

It might be uncomfortable to not go to Office Depot this week. It might be uncomfortable to not go buy your printing supplies and your office supplies. You might be in a hypnotic rhythm where you just love going. It’s part of your rhythm. It’s part of your flow. But Jeff, if we take a time out and we say,

okay, I’m going to break the hypnotic rhythm of buying my own office supplies and print cartridges at a premium price, what’s a way I can save time and money? You could visit the guys at Onyx Imaging. These guys, they are your one-stop business shop. They do same and next day delivery of office supplies.

They price match. They do their own printer cartridge manufacturing. It’s also with a lifetime warranty, 60% cheaper than the original parts. Call these guys today, 918-627-6611. If your printer’s down, the team sits around. Get these guys out there. They are going to get your printer up and running, get your team back moving.

918-627-6611. OnyxImaging.com. Stay tuned. No negative emotion, because that’s what business is. Always dominate, because I got five kids. I will not lose, I don’t break for clues.

They can talk about me, I can take that abuse. Here is the truth, while they make that excuse. I’ll be up grinding, cause the scoreboard’s the truth. He is my mentor, like my Yoda dude. He showed me the force, like I was a young noose. Oh, a little Star Wars tribute there for you, see?

You’re just bringing in the hot stuff. You’re like the Yoda dude. Like I was the young Luke. What do you think about that? That’s incredible. It’s a Caucasian sensation. That takes me years. If your career takes off as a rapper, you realize you’ll have to do concerts and you’ll have to travel.

And that is out of your wheelhouse. Absolutely. Watch out. Don’t make it so good. Here’s what I’m doing to start to get ready for that. I went to Amarillo this past week. I went out there, we drove, we had a great time.

My wife and I now know about everything. I literally cannot, I don’t do well with elongated, ongoing conversation while traveling. So I don’t have a deeper layer. When I go there, I’m the kind of guy who wants to talk about, hey, that’s a cool phone, great, what can it do? But when you start getting into, how does the phone work?

Is it ethical for it to work? How do you feel about it working? I kind of am like, let’s go to the shallow end of the pool. And so we listen to podcasts, like a crazy amount of podcasts. That’s good. Did you drive the whole time?

Oh, dude, I was on fire on the way home. I got back from Amarillo with four daughters in the car and bathroom breaks included. How long do you think it took me to get back from Amarillo, Texas to Tulsa, Oklahoma? You sound like you’re in braggadocious mode. I’m just saying 14 hours. Some estimates say it should take six hours to get home.

You got home in four and a half hours. I got home in exactly five hours. See, I was shaking my head on that. I told the kids I’ll be home by 9 o’clock at night, and I got home at 9 o’clock at night. 9-01 actually pulled in. Wow.

Sick. I wouldn’t call you a liar for one minute. It’s impressive. It’s impressive. I mean, it’s raw. For all the members of the law enforcement community out there, you know how I did it?

I did it using a hovercraft. I floated above the roads there. Drone, yeah, drones. Much safer. Drones lifting the car just in the sky. Yeah, that’s not verifiable, but that’s how I would like to…

Did your wife have to get on to… How many times… No, I should say, how many times did she… Because you’re the world’s worst driver. This is documented. It is true.

I was locked in, though, bro. I was listening to podcasts, and I’m like, hold the wheel. Podcast. Hold the wheel. Podcast. Sometimes I would go, what am I supposed to be doing?

I’m just listening to a podcast. Get back on the road! But as a general rule, I was on it. I was very impressed. Wow. A guy who was great at keeping his team on the road focused.

They’re on the road, but they’re focused. They’re winning on the road. A lot of coaches will say in the NBA and in college, it’s hard to win on the road. A lot of NBA coaches say it’s hard to get players today to focus. Phil Jackson coached Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant to NBA championships. Think about this.

Michael Jordan, his last two years of the Bulls, he said, I’m not coming back unless Phil’s my coach because we’re not going to win. Michael had played in the NBA for a long time before Phil Jackson showed up. Kobe Bryant and Shaq were on a team together. I don’t think a lot of people realize this. Shaq had ballooned up to 350 pounds.

He was a big boy. And he was 350 pounds, and Kobe was trying to score as many points as possible, and they weren’t winning championships. But Phil Jackson joined the team, and he straightened the team out. Now on page 95 of his book, 11 Rings, he writes here, when I started coaching the Bulls, I had the players create what I called a personal shield, a simple profile based on questions such as, what’s your greatest

inspiration? Who’s influenced you the most? What’s something that people don’t know about you? Later I asked them to fill out a more formal questionnaire and I used their answers to probe more deeply during our one-on-one meetings midway through the season. He said, my favorite psychological tool was one June,

called, that’s his wife, called social bullseye, which creates a picture of how people see themselves in relation to the group. On one of our long road trips, I’d give each of the players a sheet of paper with a three-ring bullseye,

representing the team’s social structure in the center. Then I’d ask them to position themselves somewhere on the bullseye based on how connected they felt to the team. Z, why is it so important for an NBA coach who’s trying to win basketball games to… Because this is what Phil Jackson would do. He would say, I’d have one coach who would focus on what the players needed to work on

better defensively. One coach focused on what they could improve on offensively. And he focused on their emotional state. Why is that so important? Because he was trying to take individuals and build a team. What?

And build a team. What? I know, it’s crazy. Think about that. Think about that though. In your office right now, because you have all the checklists now.

Yep. You have all the systems. Yep. You have all the processes. Oh yeah. Why do you constantly have to have managers who on a weekly basis engage and re-engage

over and over and over your team. Why can that never stop? It can never stop because you need to always make sure that they feel like they’re part of the team, that they’re appreciated, and a little bit can go a long ways in doing that because a lot of times if you’ve got a good employee, especially if they’re an A employee, and if you’re not giving, if you’re not kind of reaching out to them, if you’re not making

sure that they’re involved, that they feel that they’re part of the team, they’re doing a great job, someone’s going to snipe them from you. I know that you are a guy who genuinely loves your teammates, but a lot of people might say, I get bored having the same meetings every week. You know, the same follow-up, the same key performance indicators, the same routine. But the routine is what makes Dr. Robert Zellner and Associates successful for 26 years.

So how do you keep your team from getting bored? How do you bore down when other teams would struggle with boredom. Every now and then I’ll release a wild animal in the office. And that just keeps everybody on their toes. You know, a mongoose, one week. Maybe a turkey, maybe a small bobcat.

You know, not an adult bobcat. Komodo dragon. I haven’t done that one yet. Just by using the word adult in front of the word bobcat, you made it feel dirty. I want to apologize to all of our listeners out there. I’m sorry.

It’s an adult Bobcat. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I said it was small. No, it’s like you go to an adult grocery store. That’s just…

Oh, oh, oh. An adult bookstore. I’m so sorry. Keep the show clean. I never thought of it that way. I thought you were working clean here.

Get it out of the gutter. You know what? I’m trying. I’m going to go in the bathroom and use a little soap in my mouth. I’ll be right back, okay? My mom would be proud.

Continue. But, no, what you… Dizzy, what you do is you bring a little excitement and fun to it you know if you can you show up to work if you have a smile on your face a little little hip-hop in your step

and if you’re not you know guns guns high gun flying and smiling and and uh… cheering people on if you want to really let you down around and desert you want to have a good asset dot box all your that’s what you do every day though that’s what you do every part of a rockstar did you bring a little excitement to it. And every now and then whenever you hit key indicators, whenever you hit those goals,

then you go out and you take everybody bowling, you take everybody to a little pizza. When we come back from the break, I want you to talk about taking everyone to the office to Magoo’s. Okay. And I want you to talk about the importance of your annual Christmas party. Oh yeah.

And the Thanksgiving turkeys. Because when my wife and I first got married, my wife worked for your optometry clinic, and you invited us to a Christmas party. And that was the first Christmas party we had gone to as a couple. Oh, wow. Really?

You invited us to Magoo’s. That was the first time we’d been on a date since we were married. We could afford to go out. Wow! And the turkey was like, are you kidding me? Who is this guy?

Yeah. Easy, fun, necessary moves. It’s absolutely an incredible move, and I want you to talk about how you keep your team engaged. But before I do that, I want to talk about the importance of keeping your accounting engaged.

I think a lot of times you can let your accounting drift, Paul. And if you had to guess, Paul, with hoodcpas.com, what percentage, from your experience of entrepreneurs that you’ve met with for the first time, have their accounting in order previous to meeting with you? Well, at hoodcpas.com, you know, we’re giving away an hour for free, so we have a lot of people that come in and sit down and talk to us.

And Clay, I was surprised, it’s probably 99% of the people that come in, at least two-thirds of those people don’t even have accounting and the rest of them, they absolutely do not use those numbers to steer their business. They are just out there producing. They’re just not steering the business. Just today I had two people say, hey, who’s an accountant that you’d recommend to help

me file my taxes correctly? They’re very successful entrepreneurs making money, but how do I file my taxes correctly? And I’d just say, if you’re out there looking for an accountant, check out hoodcpas.com. That’s hoodcpas.com. He’ll give you a free copy of Warren Buffett’s book, Snowball. Stay tuned.

And now, broadcasting live from the box that rocks, it’s the Thrive Time Business Coach Radio Show. All the time we’re hot at learning and hot at earning. Dipping it to the top like we’re hiking Mount Vernon. We’re changing the mindsets like we’re incense burning. Passing on the magic like your name was Irving

Serving up that knowledge like I was a servant I cite what I state so you know I’m not a servant It’s a drive type show, bringing the heat while fervent Giving it to you straight in a war-themed scene Stacking the cash, making the dash Running the plaques, bringing them back

Bring me the tracks so I can get up on them I can speak the facts Stacking the cash, making the dash Running the plaques, bringing them back Bring me the tracks so I can get up on them, I can speak the facts. Yes!

You know, I’m surprised. I’ve got a word you’ve got to get in that one. What is it? When you redo that one, all those Irvins, you know, you’ve got to get bourbon in there. Bourbon? Make your throat burn like a nice…

Pass it on the magic like Irvin was good. Oh yeah, that was good. That was good. I was good. Serpent, I mean, yeah, it was hot. Serpent, it’s Serpent.

It was a hot sauce, don’t get me wrong. Okay, but you’re saying bourbon. I’m saying, I think, any time you can get bourbon into a wrap. Now I do know that OneRepublic and Ryan Tedder, he likes to sip on bourbon before recording. He says it kind of loosens up the larynx. The larynx, yes.

Why do you sip on bourbon? Do you sip on bourbon before you do payroll? Do you sip on bourbon before you listen to your recorded calls? When’s the appropriate time that you recommend that you sip on bourbon? In the evenings before you retire for the evening. That or right before you’re operating heavy equipment.

I’ve found that that’s always… Right, the heavier the equipment is. Always heavy equipment seems to just… you just have a little looser feel to it whenever you’re… The opinions of this show and myself and Zee and Paul Hood and Eric Shepherd are not necessarily the opinions of ourselves.

Pre-Bourbon. Pre-Bourbon. Pre-Bourbon. Okay, so now Zee, before we went to the break, we were talking about the importance of engaging your team. Keeping your team engaged. Now Phil Jackson, the coach of the NBA’s Chicago Bulls and the Los Angeles Lakers, I want to

just give the listeners this mental picture. Think about this. You’re traveling on a team. Z, think about this. I mean, Paul, think about this. You’re traveling on a team.

There’s four of us here, okay? And Marshall’s here as well. So there’s five of us. Imagine there’s ten of us. Add two more. There’s twelve of us now, we’re traveling, and every night we go to a hotel

and we play every third day in front of 15,000 people. Half of the time, everyone in the opposing stadium hates us. Now we, after the game, it’s about 11 o’clock at night, 10-30, we get back to our hotel and then we have to hop on a plane, usually that night, if it’s a road game. We get back to our hotel, gather our stuff, we fly out, and then we wake up the next morning. A lot of these guys had said throughout the book, and if you watch NBA films, they’ll

talk about, a lot of these players wake up and they don’t remember what city they’re in. They’re like, I don’t even know, are we in Charlotte? Are we in Atlanta? I don’t know. Because every night they’re going to a new place.

Right. 15,000 people are cheering for you, and you’re making, on average, five to 10 times more than your boss. So you’re 19, you’re 23, you’re 25, your coach is 60, your coach is reading books, your coach is married, your coach is measured, and you’ve got 10 million, 7 million, 6 million, I mean backup guys, Steve Kerr, are making $2-3 million. The coaches are making what the backup guys are making.

And this guy is trying to talk philosophy to you. Now Phil Jackson found a way to not only get their attention, but to engage them and to make them all feel appreciated. He took over the Bulls and Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen were already there, but yet they hadn’t won anything. When he took over the Lakers, Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe were already there.

So a lot of people discounted, oh, it would be easy to win championships with those two guys. But no one else was doing it. Nobody else was doing it. And after he retired, he quit coaching the Bulls. Michael didn’t win any other championships after that.

After he left the Lakers, they didn’t win any more after that. The years he was gone, they didn’t win. Kobe begged him to come back. So this is a valuable lesson for everybody out there. Phil Jackson knew how to engage people, and the most egotistical people. So in your office at Dr. Robert Zellner and Associates, at your holiday party, there’s

hundreds of people there. And my wife was once your front desk person. She used to wear the scrubs, the pink scrubs, back in the day, go to work, and she’d go to work there. Her and her friend Carrie worked there. And I remember that you invited all of your teammates, all your employees out to an office

party to Magoose. And that was our first date we’d been out since we were married. Why did you do that? Why did you take everybody out to Magoose? Because we didn’t really know each other that well at that time. Why do you always do those kind of things?

Why do you do that? Well, one, it’s a reward for having a record month, a record season, maybe a record quarter. I’m trying to remember back what that particular one was, the one that you were the first one to use your mind. Circa 2000. Right.

And for those that are listening out there going, what is Magoose? Magoose is a billiard hall. Billiard, yeah. Classic. It’s a billiard hall with Rich Mahoney. We have Dr. Zahner going against Eric Chuff here in their final…

And I would say adult beverages, but I am bound from saying the word adult on the show, I guess. The word adult really takes the show to a low level. I’m not going to say it anymore. Right, yeah. Dirty.

Grown up beverages. But we would do that. We’d also do bowling. You know, go to the bowling alleys. Why? For team building.

Come on. For reward. To share with everybody. You know, it’s easy to go by and pat someone on the back and say, man, you’re doing a great job, thanks. And that means something, but then you can also show them by taking part of the profit,

part of the money that these people are working hard for you to make, and then spending it on them. Spending it on them. And so, I think it’s very important. It does a number of things. It one, shows them that I am serious about the goals and when we hit them, hey, we’re

going to celebrate. All right. Number two, it also shows that I’m about wanting to spend time with them in appropriate ways. It’s not one-on-one. It’s a big group thing. So you know, you kind of butterfly around and kind of make sure you visit with everybody

a little bit, you know, get to know them, show them that you care. And number three, it lets them kind of bond and get to know each other too. And so you build that camaraderie and that team philosophy. Now Phil Jackson talked about how he had to run around from player to player making sure they were all engaged. So they all had their own individual goals.

So he writes here on page 97 of this book, Paul I want to get your take on this. He says, Michael says he liked this approach because it allowed me to be the person I needed to be. Sometimes I would tell him that he needed to be more aggressive and set the tone for the team. Other times I’d say, why don’t you try to get Scottie Pippen going so that the defenders will go after him and then you can

attack. In general, I try to give Michael Jordan room to figure out how to integrate his personal ambitions with those of the team. Phil knew that winning the scoring title was very important to me, Michael says now, but I wanted to do it in a way that didn’t take away from what the team was doing. Why do you have to spend the time to individually know all your players on your team to be able to treat them

a little bit differently, Paul. Why does that have to happen? Well, as the leader, as the manager, as the owner, you have, your job is to steer that ship if you will, or that car, like we say at hoodcps.com, and take a look under the hood. You steer that car, and you’ve got to know the strengths and the weaknesses.

And a lot of times, you know, we’re human. People are human, and they may excel this day and not excel the next day, and so you need to know how do you reward people? What do they want out of life? What do they, how do you, how do you get the most out of them?

And, and so by knowing their different personalities and, and what works for them, that’s what you do. On the flip side of kind of coaching up on these touchpoints and these meetings that you have with everybody, this also lets you as the manager know when somebody is about to spin off the rails.

If you don’t have contact with your team members over long, vast periods of time, you’re not going to know where they’re at mentally and you guys that you’ve seen where a merry-go-round starts going too fast oh yeah and the one person their legs are hanging off and then their bodies hanging off like you can catch that before they fly right

off of the rails if you keep in contact. It’s more fun to watch them fly off. We’re going too fast. That’s what happens if you don’t watch. Exactly. If you don’t watch.

You know when you stand in the middle of it and see how they run around and get going real fast. I have motion sickness when I’m driving, bro. Dude, seriously. He’s definitely not a merry-go-round guy. Man, you are no fun to me. You are no fun to me.

I’m with you. Let me tell you this. On page 97 of the book 11 Rings by Phil Jackson, he goes on to explain a very specific example of this. He’s describing Scotty Pippin. And he says, Scotty Pippin, for instance, grew up the youngest of 12 children in Hamburger,

Arkansas. Or Hamburger, Arkansas. His family didn’t have much money, in part because his father had been disabled by a stroke while working at a paper mill. Still Scotty was the golden boy in the family. Though he didn’t get any scholarship offers, any!

Not one scholarship offer. He enrolled at the University of Central Arkansas and worked his way through school doing odd jobs and serving as the varsity manager. His debut as a walk-on for the freshman team was not spectacular. He averaged 4.3 points and 2.9 rebounds per game. Yet he was a starter on the Chicago Bulls.

We talked about this dude came from nothing. Nobody ever believed in him, and he always had this natural belief that everyone was against him and you could see why He’s the youngest of a huge family. He’s a freaking walk-on in college, but Phil knew that about him So he’s always trying to make sure that Scottie was involved in the team You know Scottie actually demanded to be traded numerous times and refused to play Because he wanted to be traded a lot. He felt like he wasn’t really the center of attention.

Oh yeah, a lot of times. So again, Phil Jackson, to keep him coming to work, getting there on the court every single day. And I think about a company out there, Chup, one of our show sponsors, that comes to work every single day. Every day.

These guys work hard. They’re like the Scotty Pippen of pest control, Chup. Tell us about Platinum Pest and Lawn. Well Platinum Pest and Lawn, you can call these guys at 918-376-0857. They’re doing free termite inspections right now. Yep, can you say that number one more time?

Because when you say that number, I just started to percovate, and I just thought to myself that was nice. Coffee maker. You were so nice. 918-376-0857. Like I said, free termite inspections, and if they find some damage, they’re going to

do $200 off your termite treatment. Get a hold of them at platinum-pestcontrol.com or 918-376-0857. 918-376-0857. Bring back the website one more time. The Circle. Platinum-PestControl.com.

The Circle. One more time. One more time. Platinum-PestControl.com. Thank you. 3, 2, 1, boom!

You are now entering the dojo of Mojo and the Thrive Time Show. Thrive Time Show on the microphone. What is this? Top of the iTunes charts in the category of business drilling down on business topics like we are a dentist Providing you with internship like you are an apprentice and we go so fast that you might get motion sickness Grab a pen and pad to the lab. Let’s get in

It’s time to bear some fruit like some Florida oranges three two one here come the business ninja Oh, yeah. Yeah. Maybe do a show just, you know, decked out in black with like samurai swords and things of that nature. Adult ninjas.

Oh, I did not say I did not. I was reading your mind. I can’t do that. I was reading. I. Here’s the thing.

I was using what I would call artificial intelligence, not real intelligence. And I was able to just probe your mind. And you said mentally, should we have a should we dress up like adult ninjas? And I thought to myself, that is sick! I’m going to wash my mouth back out with soap. Wash your mind out with soap!

I mean my mind, thank you. Now okay, we’re talking today about the words of wisdom and the mindset, the philosophy of Phil Jackson. Now Phil Jackson, Z, do you remember when the Bulls were just dominating NBA basketball? Yeah, I do. I remember it very well.

What a cast of characters. It was amazing to see how good they were. They were really good. Marshall, do you remember when the L.A. Lakers were kind of floundering around and they had Shaquille O’Neal and they had Kobe and they weren’t really getting it together and then they switched to Phil Jackson and it was sort of a collectively known thing that here comes

the championships. Because you were probably, what, 15, 14, 15 years old? Well, yeah. When I was starting to get really into basketball was when the Lakers were already dominant. So I didn’t see them flounder as much before as after he got there. Well, this is what Phil Jackson talks about on page 99 of his book.

He’s talking about his philosophy towards basketball is 100% opposite of probably every other coach. So I’m going to read this to you because again, you are probably the man that I know that has this mindset towards life that most parallels Phil Jackson’s philosophy towards coaching. So I’m super excited to get your take on this. Okay, cool. Phil writes here on page 99. At that time, most coaches subscribed to the Newt Rockne theory of mental training. They tried to get their players revved up for the game with with one for the Gipper style pep talks that approach may work If you’re a linebacker

But what I discovered playing for the Knicks is that when I got too excited mentally it had a negative effect on my ability to stay focused under pressure So as a head coach, I did the opposite instead of charging players up I developed a number of strategies to help them quiet their minds and build awareness so they could go into battle poised and in control. The first thing I did with the bowls was to teach the players an

abbreviated version of mindfulness and meditation based upon Zen practiced over the years. I didn’t make it a big deal of it. We sat for about 10 minutes or so during practice, usually before one of our video viewing sessions. Some players thought it was weird. Others used it as time to take a nap. But they humored me because they knew

that meditation was an important part of my life. From my point of view, getting the players to sit quietly together for 10 minutes was a good start. And some players, notably BJ Armstrong, took a serious interest in meditation and pursued it on their own.

I wasn’t trying to turn bulls into Buddhist monks I was interested in getting them to take a more mindful approach to the game and to the relationships with one another at its heart Mindfulness mindfulness is about being present in the moment as much as possible not weighed down by your thoughts of the past or the future That is well said and in the you do this chapter in my book is entitled Sh… to make your ends, so you can produce the greenery like all the Oregon.

Sue will call you pregnant cause you got Benjamins, will call you pimp girl cause you just bought a Benz, and then you’ll be bragging to your wife and kids, that your wallet’s overweight but it used to be thin. Trump’s away, this is play broadcasting with the zen, with the focus locked in like San Quentin.

Can I get a B to the O, O to the M, you’ve heard the rumors, he is I and I is him. He be the Z and I be the C, I am super excited to be here with you today my friend. We have the NBA legend, the 5’3 basketball player in the National Basketball Association, Muggsy Bogues, has agreed to be on our podcast coming up soon.

I’m so excited! I wonder what he’s going to want to talk about. What he wants to talk about? Challenges in life. What do you think he’s going to be? Did he tell you what his topic was going to be?

How everything was given to him. I’m in the process of writing the questions for the interview. And I can tell you, the guy, he grew up in poverty, his father went to prison, his mom raised him, he’s 5’3″. Let’s think about this, he’s 5’3″, he doesn’t have a dad, his mom doesn’t have the kind of money or the connections needed to send him to basketball camps, clinics, whatever, and this guy goes on to play, not only in the National Basketball Association, but to play at a very high level, to play in the league for 14 years.

And Mark Cuban thought so much of the man that when he retired, Mark Cuban agreed to go ahead and pay him the next three years of his contract while he didn’t play, just because he liked the guy’s character. That’s incredible. I tell you what, now, I wonder when he played, they didn’t have him in the lineup sheet, or the, you know, the, what do they call it?

The statue. The statue, they didn’t have him as 5’3″. They had him as 5’5″, 5’6″. We were the common that she just actually where big to have his five foot three So we that you know they didn’t have him as five three he is definitely all of five foot three I mean when you look at the highlights of him playing I remember it’s money the Hornets the Charlotte Hornets back in the day

They were expansion team, and I remember watching they had Larry Johnson They had Alonzo morning and then Muggsy Bogues. I remember watching their games going how tall is that yeah? Yeah, but I mean these are giants or seven feet tall six foot six six foot eight by the way right now It’s the NBA average height seven eight six foot eight and he’s five foot three this guy was super popular when I was in middle school So we were all tiny so we were like we all wanted to be Muggsy Bones. He was a man He don’t get I forget can he don’t get a

Well spud web could dunk Dunk and he had a 44 inch vertical so he could get up that high But he didn’t have big hands. He had hands that were proportionate to his body, and so he had very, very small hands. Yeah. Unlike you, where your head is not…

I mean, your head is very large. If my vertical leap was proportionate to my gourd, I would have a 95-inch for the moon. You’d be a little dunk with your feet. Now what we’re talking about today is somebody who has a massive, a massive mind. A guy who’s also massively tall, the NBA head coach for the Chicago Bulls and the Los Angeles Lakers, Phil Jackson.

In the coming shows, what we’re doing is we’re breaking down the management philosophy of Phil Jackson. You might say, why? Well, think about this for a second. Michael Jordan won six NBA championships when he played for the Bulls. Kobe Bryant won five when he played for the Lakers.

But neither one of them won a single NBA championship without the management and coaching of Phil Jackson. And that’s because he had a system that turned out champions year after year after year. I want to read a notable quotable from the book. I’m going to read a lot of notable quotables today, and I want Z for you to kind of break them down with your Zen mindset to business. This is from page 92 of Phil Jackson’s book, 11 Rings.

He says it’s virtually impossible for anyone to change unless he Thoroughly accepts who he is. I’ll repeat It’s virtually impossible for anyone to achieve unless he or she accepts who he or she is I wasn’t interested in becoming best friends with the players In fact, I think it’s important to maintain a certain distance But I tried to develop genuine caring relationships with each player based on mutual respect, compassion,

and trust. Transparency is key. All right Z, so here we go. You’re managing your office, you’re managing your businesses. I’m coaching, I’m coaching moms. Do you feel like this applies as a business owner that you can’t help anybody who’s not

aware of who they actually are? Yeah, it’s one of my core beliefs. Okay. And I say it all the time and anybody that’s out there that’s listening to any of our podcasts has probably heard it before and that is the people change seldom. And that’s the reason why is because a lot of people don’t want to really come to grips with who they are because then they feel like they might have to change. I mean you’re one of the few guys I know that has done a 180 in his life. I mean when I met you, come on

let’s call it what it is, I mean you you had on the baggy, the air loop earrings, the baggy clothes, the snarly face. I had a sweet subwoofer that compensated my lack of coachability. I mean, it shook the building when you pulled up to pick up Vanessa from the office. And you were just mad. You looked like a kid that was ready for a fight. That’s true.

You know what I mean? And I thought, wow. And then when I saw you years later, I mean, you were suited up, you were smart, you were intelligent, you were kind, you just had almost a different, I thought, is this the same guy? I thought, what have you done with Clay Clark? Who are you?

I think that… Did the Illuminati come by and exchange you with a Clay model? This is something I’d like to share. Paul, have you ever been to Mexico? I have been to Mexico, yes sir. I just spoke at a church in Amarillo this past weekend.

I was on Amarillo, Texas. Big shout out to Victory Church in Amarillo, a church of a little over a thousand people. I was speaking to their three services. And what’s interesting is when you go to Amarillo, I would say probably 25% of the population speaks Spanish. Now when you go down to Cancun or you go down to Mexico on an all-inclusive resort, Z, probably

100% of the people down in Mexico speak Spanish. That is correct. Z, it’s like they have a different word for everything. It’s almost like it’s a different language. Isn’t that weird? So weird.

So I remember I lost my shoes in Cancun, and I think they got wet or something on a catamaran tour, and I went into their version of Walmart. And I found myself doing this, and I laughed at myself when I left, because I’m like, I’m such an idiot. But what happens is, when you are a tourist, what you do is you walk in there with your pale skin and your lack of knowledge of how to speak Spanish, and you want to get some shoes.

I wanted to get some shoes. And so I said, do you guys know where I could find shoes? And everyone looks at me and says, no hablo ingles. And I’m like, so this is what you do as a typical Caucasian American tourist. This is how you do it. What you do is you begin to talk slower and louder.

And add O’s to the individual word. Do you know, O, where the shoes are? You know, and then you realize they’re not understanding. You must speak louder. Excuse me! Do you know where the shoes are?

And pretty soon you realize, I’m just talking loud and slow to somebody who doesn’t speak my language. Correct. And the world doesn’t get it. They don’t get it. You know what? I’m in Mexico.

I might need to learn their language. Well, the language of success is coachability. If you’re out there demanding the world to pay you, but you’re not coachable, that’s a problem, see. Absolutely. So the first half of that statement, I completely agree with.

People change seldom, and it really takes a motivated person and really self-aware person to change. It is possible, but it’s really up to them. You can’t change somebody. I have tried for years to do that and it’s unsuccessful. The second part of that I think is very powerful too, and that is to have compassion and to

have respect and to have likeability with your employees, i.e. his players, but not be so close to them that you needed to trade them or we might say fire them. Or find a new position. I want to get your take on this because you and Paul both manage a large team. So I’ll start with you, Zee, and then I’ll go to Paul. He says, I wasn’t interested in becoming friends with the players.

In fact, Phil Jackson says, I think it’s important to maintain a certain distance. Correct. But I tried to develop genuine, caring relationships with each player based upon mutual respect, compassion, and trust. So how do you keep a distance while also maintaining the mutual respect, compassion, and trust? Activity is away from the office.

You have to be very careful who you do that with and the amount of time you do that with and sharing your personal information with people. Obviously, I have a few of my employees that have kind of crossed over or are in that friend category, business category.

They’ve actually invested in some of them. The circle. The circle. You have to make the circle. They’ve invested. They’ve grabbed the pebble from my hand.

How do you know when someone enters the circle? Circle. Circle. How do you decide to let someone into the circle? Well, just through time, getting to know them. Then you say, okay, this is the person I want to come a step closer.

If they handle those responsibilities, you can let them come a step closer. Then pretty soon, you know, you give them a nice sideways, appropriate hug. You didn’t say I had to wear pants. No one ever told me I had to wear pants to your house. That wasn’t in the job description. But what you do is you, and then you can only have so much time for so many.

So you have a few that are maybe in that friend zone. But most of them you just have a nice respectful distance from them. You’re kind and polite to them, but you’re not like, hey man, so you know, tell me about your life. Bro, you want to get together tonight and play some video games, bro? Bro!

Bro! systems to make your ends, so you can produce the greenery like all the Oregon. Sue will call you pregnant cause you got Benjamins, will call you Benporal cause you just bought a Benz, and then you’ll be bragging to your wife and kins, that your wallet’s overweight but it used to be thin. Some say wait, this is play broadcasting with the zen, with the focus locked in like San

Quentin, can I get a B to the O, O to the M, you’ve heard the rumors, he is I and I is him, he be the Z and I be the C. That was teaching business skills from plate to C. We both grew up poor, but we’re poor no more. The goal of this show is to help you score. All right, Thrive Nation, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show on your radio. My name is Clay Clark. I am the former USSBA Entrepreneur of the Year, and as always, I’m joined here

with the man, the myth, the legend, Dr. Robert Zellner. Sir, how are you? I’m great. Today feels like a throwback day. Oh, yeah. Think about it.

Think about it. I mean, normally we have a crew of guys around us. Right. You know, we’ve got Butterchup, you know, adding show notes, looking things up. We’ve got Marshall sitting over in this corner cheering us on. Sometimes Jonathan Kelly’s kind of squirreling around.

You know, a lot of the guys are kind of around. But today, in the studio, it’s like a throwback day. It’s just you and I old school. It’s like a man cave session. Just the two of us.

Well, what we’re going to do, we’re going to do what we would do during our man cave sessions. We’re going to talk about the things that matter. The things that people care about. The things that people care about. So what I want to do is I’m going to pretend that this is just a quiet man cave session

between you and me and all the listeners and their friends. This conversation is going to be private. Just private. Just you and I. The phones aren’t on. No one’s recording the calls.

You know what? We recorded those Man Cave sessions. There are so many good. There are so many golden nuggets. So I’m going to give you a Man Cave session moment before we get into Phil Jackson and management because we’re breaking down Phil Jackson’s book, 11 Rings, and he was obviously

the coach who coached the Bulls to six NBA championships, the Lakers to five NBA championships. But think about this, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, neither one of those guys won a single NBA championship without Phil Jackson. Their teams just kind of floundered around before Phil came to town. And what Phil would do is he looks for talent. He could recognize the talent.

So I would like to ask you this. Is there somebody in your company you can think of right now where you’re going, man, this person’s been with me for a long time. And they were much more talented than I maybe initially thought. Because Phil’s talking about this on page 120. He explains that Scottie Pippen goes in place for the Dream Team.

And he said Michael Jordan always considered Scottie to be a good player. He thought, you know, he’s like Michael and the rest of the team. But this is what he says, he says, Michael realized that Scottie, after playing in Barcelona for the Dream Team, he says, Michael realized that Scottie was the best all-around basketball player on the planet. Wow.

Scottie, Michael had to admit, had even outshone him during some games. Scottie came back with renewed confidence and took on an even bigger role with the Bulls. So it’s like, he already recognized that Scottie was good, but he went up there and played against Clyde Drexler, John Stockton, Magic Johnson. Scottie not only held his own, but he played better than those guys. And all of a sudden he goes, oh my gosh, look, internally, I have a guy who’s the best in

the NBA. Michael felt like, look, he needed somebody else to show that to him. And then Phil goes on and talks about how you have to look for that talent. You have to find that talent, nurture that talent. So I think about our company, I think about John Kelly. That would be a guy I’m going to start with.

John Kelly. Boy, sure, why wouldn’t you? That guy’s a rock star. We started him doing search engine optimization. Okay? His job is to write articles that no one reads to get to the top of Google.

But they’ve got to be done well. They’ve got to follow the system. They’ve got to follow the system. It can’t be just gibberish. Right. And you have to like, and it’s tough because, say we have a client, I remember the first

client that John worked with was called Nielsen’s Gifts. And they said, we sell Kinzig lamps. Kinzig. K-I-N-Z-I-G lamps. I’ve never bought a Kinzig lamp. Nor has he.

And so we’re like, well, what would you like for us to write about? And they said, just a Kinzig lamp. Now, to win, to be top in Google, he had to write 400 plus articles for that client with no previous knowledge of the subject. And remember, his parents, friends, family, they go, what do you do for a living, man? I write articles.

I write articles. Does anyone read them? No. No. Are you published? No.

But then over time I realized that that diligence that he was applying to search engines, I bet you he could apply that to the phones. So he brought them out of the search engine dungeons, put them on the phones. And the phones, he puts on a laser show. A laser show. Cold calling for a roofing company called BRB Roofing.

Now when he’s cold calling for BRB Roofing, Z, his job is to cold call business owners, guys like you, and try to convince you to set up a meeting about having your roof redone. Z, is that like one of your favorite things in the world to do, is to redo your flat roof on a commercial building you own? It’s right up there with having a tooth extraction, I would say. I mean, they’re close.

Honestly, wouldn’t you rather just patch it all the time? Just patch it forever? Just patch it. Get some hot tar on a really hot day. That’s one of my favorite things to do. And go up there right after you’ve had a tooth extraction.

If we could do both on the same day, I mean, that’s a win. That’s hashtag winning. If there’s any way that you could have an examination to, you know, you could get a colonoscopy on that same day, too? Oh, yeah. So you start early.

You get that colonoscopy first. Oh, yeah. You get that tooth extraction. Yeah. And then you segue right into the roof. You’ve got to get that tar really hot.

And as a business owner, why would somebody, honestly, why would you as a business owner not want to talk to somebody about replacing your roof? You know, I don’t know. Lazy? I don’t know why. It’s expensive.

Well, okay, it is expensive. We’re cold calling you saying, when was the last time you looked at your roof? Let’s think about your memorial office. Okay, let’s do it. If you replaced your roof, what’s that going to cost you? That’s a very good question.

I mean, it probably depends on when you say replace it. I mean, like tear it all the way off and replace it? Right. I mean, I don’t know, $50,000, $60,000 probably? A lot of money. I mean, a good check and change.

So John’s job was to cold call people he didn’t know and to say… I’ll role play the call. Okay, here we go. Hey, who’s in charge of the building maintenance there for Dr. Robert Zillner and Associates? I guess that’d be the office manager, Kylie. Why? Can I speak… I know Kylie’s out today.

Can I speak to Bob? Can I speak to Bob? Okay, okay. I’m just assuming that you’re not Kylie, since you’re a man. Yeah, yeah. Hey, is this Bob?

Yeah, this is Bob. What can I do for you? Bob, hey, my name’s Clay. I’m with BRB Roofing. Have you heard of us before? I don’t think I have.

We’re based in Muskogee. We put on the roof like NSU, Oklahoma State, a lot of big churches, that kind of thing. And we know most people would rather have a tooth extraction than to replace the roof. But when was the last time you looked at your roof? Do you have any roof leaks right now? The last time it rained, some of my towels did get a little brown.

So I think I might have a little bit. I don’t know. Well, here’s my pitch. We send a guy by. He looks at your roof. We do a little video of it to see if there’s any issues with it. If you want to replace it, we give you a quote. If not, no stress. Would you like for us to come by and do that? There’s no obligation or anything. Sure. Why not?

That’s basically the pitch. But he had to do that like 200 calls a day. I mean, they’re hanging up on him all day. Oh, yeah. I mean, they’re hanging up on him. But that dude was dead four or five appointments every day. Yeah.

I realize, gosh, that he’s our Scotty Pippen. He’s our Scotty Pippen. So what you do is you promote that guy. So now you say, hey, I got a manager being kind of squirrely. John, he’ll be out next week. The manager’s kind of being squirrely, you know.

I didn’t say he’s squirrely. I said, the manager’s out next week. I’d like for you to fill in this week just to, you know, see how you can, you know, do it. Not only does he get to work before his predecessor did, but he nails it. I mean, things are operating at a new level of efficiency. The team is done with their…

Literally, I remember that the team used to work Monday through Friday, and the deadline would be like Friday, Friday morning. He’s letting the team go. He’s like, hey, if you want to, everyone can have off on Friday, because we’re done. I’m going, no way. No way.

It’s a project management. He’s managing like websites, search engine optimization, everything’s done. And people haven’t been pulling all-nighters. And see, there’s some people that can just manage people. It’s amazing. It’s a difficult skill set, but once you have it, it’s worth a lot of money.

But some people can’t manage people at all. They can’t manage themselves. And here’s where the man cave session would begin. I won’t mention the person’s name, but can you think of people that you’ve had throughout your career who this person couldn’t manage a snow cone stand. They can’t manage themselves.

But they’re good at their job. But they can’t manage anybody. And you’ve told me in a man cave session, you said, Clayton, you had a little glass of Lagavulin. Oh yeah. And Lagavulin, can you explain what Lagavulin is for the listeners out there who haven’t

been to a man cave session? Lagavulin is when it rains in heaven, the dew on the ground after a good hard rain, they scoop it up and they put it in a bottle. It’s called Lagavulin. It’s peat moss, right? Well, it’s a single piece.

It’s a single mulch scotch from the Islay region of Scotland. And it’s a real pungent kind of a… A peaty? Yeah, kind of a… Earthy? Smells like dirt.

You explained it to me. At the time, I was drinking like a Riesling. You were drinking like a girl’s beverage. This is what you told me on the Man Cave session. I remember this. You said, we’re talking about management, and you said, Clay, on the far right side,

we’ll call it the more feminine beverages, you have like a margarita, you might have a daiquiri. A cosmopolitan, an appletini. Right. And then as you move left, you’re kind of trending into darker, like a red wine. You know, Lagaboon’s like the Darth Vader.

Yeah, it’s way over here. Of beverages. It’s dark. It requires a real man to sip from this. And you explain this to me. And so I take just a small sip of it.

Just a small sip. Just a small sip. And I am like… You almost passed out. It’s crazy. And so this beverage is pretty intense.

And then I was asking you about management. I said, well, Z, I’ve got somebody who’s struggling to hit the deadlines. What do you do?” And you said to me, you looked at me and you said, Clay, people change seldom. So I’m thinking, great, he’s killed all my hope. Okay, great.

Step two, though, step two, you said, you, my friend, have done a bad thing. I said, what have I done? And you said, you have promoted somebody to a level of incompetence. Yes. To a level of their incompetence. And then you reached over and you grabbed some wood in your fireplace outside, looking

over the pool, and you put some more wood in there. And you proceeded to say nothing else about the subject. As I’m left to kind of figure out, what does this mean? Because you just told me that people change seldom, and you told me that I promoted somebody who was good at their job to a level of their incompetence. Please explain what that means.

Which is one of the worst things you can do. What will happen is you find a guy and he comes in the lab and he’s really good at making glasses. He’s efficient, he’s on time, he’s accurate, he hits all five A’s and he’s just a little rock star. Then all of a sudden your optical man or the lab manager says, hey, I’m moving to wherever,

family’s got a thing, I’ve got to go, here’s my notice, I had a great time and I’m out of here. Then you look at this person and you say, wow, he shows up on time. He’s really good at making the lenses. He should be my lab manager.” With really no consideration for how does he get along with people, how does he interact

with people. Do you think he’s going to be a good manager of people? He’s a good manager of the job, but now when you start to manage people, it’s a whole different paradigm shift. Can I pull up an email that came in today from one of our employees at one of our companies? Oh, yeah

I’m not going to read the names of the people involved. I think you would appreciate this. Oh, it’s on the big screen Yeah, so he actually went out to one of the shops. This is what he discovered. He says yeah such-and-such is Their attitude is wrong. Oh This person here doing a bad job this person bad job this person, bad job, these three, bad job. See, this is like page one.

Wow. Now this is a guy who was very good at his job who wanted to become the next level in the company, wanted to become a manager. Sure. That’s the move, isn’t it? And I sent him to one of the businesses to shadow for a day, and no solutions on how

to improve, but just taking notes of all the things going wrong. And, I’m telling you, if you manage people, does not everybody bring a little crazy to work? They do. They do. They’re like the hot crazy matrix, you know.

Right. I mean, every day they’re a little crazy, you know, so. Well, when we come back, we’re going to talk more about Phil Jackson and how Phil Jackson helped Michael Jordan to discover, look, Scotty Pippin, man, this guy is a floor general. He’s a great manager. You should involve him.

In fact, we should let him lead the team. A lot of people don’t realize, Scottie Pippen became the leader of the Bulls. He was the one who kept the emotional state of the team positive. And another way to keep the emotional state of your office positive, Z, is you want to have clean bathrooms. Oh yeah, these guys are rock stars, by the way. Classic janitorial. I mean, tell you what. These guys, they do all the cleaning for Google. I’ve never heard of them. DuPont, I don’t know who they are.

New Star, Total Ending Concepts, The Thrive Time Show. What’s that? These guys are a great company. It’s called theclassicclean.com. Theclassicclean.com. Make your office, turn it into a porcelain palace.

Turn your bathroom into a porcelain palace. Visit theclassicclean.com. Call them today. 918-671-2046. 918-671-2046. And now, broadcasting live from the box that rocks, it’s the Thrivetime Business Coach

Radio Show. And I cite what I state so you know I’m not a servant It’s a drive type show, bringing the heat while I’m fervent Giving it to you straight, in a war of action Stacking the cash, making the dash Earning the plaques, bringing them back

Bring me the tracks so I can get up on them I can speak the facts Stacking the cash, making the dash Earning the plaques, bringing them back Bring me the tracks so I can get up on them I can speak the facts

Yes! Earning the plaques! Earning the plaques! You’ve earned some really great plaques in your day Well let me tell you about plaques Have you ever hit the speaking circuit?

No, not like you. You’ve really done it. I mean, I do an occasional businessman’s group here and there, and they get me doing stuff. Let me walk you through the business speaking circuit. This is what happens. Oh, yeah.

We’re talking about management today, and the life and times of Phil Jackson, the NBA Hall of Fame legendary coach. But before we do that, let’s talk about public speaking. So many people say, I want to become a public speaker. And there’s a science to it. Here again, you can business coach somebody up to do it.

You can do it. Clay Stairs is a guy I’ve coached who still does public speaking today. He’s done great. He went from being a school teacher to earning millions of dollars a year as a consultant speaker. He’s done great, but I’ll tell you this.

As a speaker, you have to first die to yourself and realize, I can’t talk about what people need to hear. I must talk about what they want to hear. Okay, that’s a little soul sucking right there. It is, but your event planner will say, I found you online and I wanted to see what topics do you have?

And if you tell them stuff like how to build a linear workflow, how to build a scalable system, how to manage people, they’re like, could you talk about, and it’s always like, could you talk about how to manage your Facebook page? Right. No, how to generate, how to create financial freedom while working four hours a week. It’s just that kind of crap.

The millionaire mindset to creating an environment where everyone’s happy. Right. And so you realize, so the topic of your event is what? Creating a work environment where everyone’s happy. Happy. So you realize, okay.

So I had to do business comedy, which is a combination of business and comedy, because if you’re going to be honest, you better be funny. Right, exactly. So I get up there and I’m like, alright, ladies and gentlemen, Hewlett Packard, how many people today are excited to be here? And like one guy in the front row is like…

Yeah. I’m being honest. So you’re like, so how many people are here? And everyone’s like… And you kind of get the first laugh. And then the guy in the front row is looking at you going,

I told you so. He looks at you and he’ll actually look at the person next to him and go, Gary, I freaking told you. I told you, this guy is going to be a tool. Right. And then about 20 minutes into the talk, you get about an hour format, people start taking

notes and you start winning them over. They’re laughing, they’re winning, they’re getting into it. They’re taking notes. They’re getting eye contact. They’re getting a little eye contact. They’re starting to get into it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they start to leave and they’ll come up to you and go, you were like Jim Gaffigan meets business. This was fun. And I’ll say, thanks. And they’ll go, could you sign my book?

And you sell some books. They want you to sign the book. Now every one of them reaches out to you on LinkedIn. Oh yeah. All of them, 400 people. Then they all send you an email.

And they all send you a text or a message. They find a way to get a hold of you. And they say, can I pick your brain? Your assistant tries to set up 400 pick your brain sessions. And then you realize, it’s time to build a podcast. That’s not sustainable.

Yes. But I mean, then there’s the dinner the night before you speak with the people who are sponsoring. Yeah. And there you’re nobody. Now, if the dinner was after you spoke, do you ever do that? You have to.

No, you have to. You have to do a dinner after and a dinner before. Oh, but the one after you’re a rock star. The one before, they’re like, who’s that big pale guy over there in the corner? And what you do is you have to figure out who’s paying you. Because you know who’s paying you?

The person who’s paying you, that’s the product that you cannot, you can’t even, so as an example, I spoke to Hewlett Packard. Let’s be honest. Most people today, if you’re a business professional and you work, and I can say this now because they’re no longer a client, but let’s just say that you are a business professional and you have any type of efficiency that you care about at all and you do graphic design.

Are you going to use a Hewlett Packard computer, Z? No. You’re using a Mac. You’re using a Mac, yeah. Right. You’re using the Mac.

So then at the talk, you can’t talk about, like you say, what we’re going to talk about today is the importance of gaining a high net promoter score, which is where you want to build a brand that people love. And so think about the brands that people love. That would be like Whole Foods, that would be like Harley, that would be like Nike, that would be like Apple.

Oh, oh, oh, Hewlett Packard. That would be like Hewlett Packard. Hewlett Packard, HP, HP. Heal the Packers! HP! HP!

I remember I gave a talk one time about the importance of saving money to a group of insurance agents, and I talked about the importance of living below your means and saving money. And I did a quote. I quoted Dave Ramsey. Oh, no. And I didn’t realize this entire group of people hates Dave Ramsey, because apparently

Dave Ramsey teaches you to minimize your expenses, which decreases these outrageous products they can charge you for. Oh yeah. And so all of them hate Dave Ramsey. Oh yeah. I remember saying, I’m like, now folks, Dave Ramsey once said, you want to act your wage.

You just feel the burning coming on. You just feel the boo! It’s like the loudest boo in the world. Boo! The guy’s getting the feathers out. I mean, you’re like, I don’t think this is going the right direction.

And I think a lot of people don’t realize what it’s like to play in the NBA. You’re in the NBA, there’s 15 guys on a team, 12 of which are making more than the coach, at least, and you’re playing in front of 15,000 people, many of which were born yesterday and believe they know more about the game you’re playing. They’re giving you tips, stuff like, number 20, screw off! Number 20, you suck!

And I’m not talking about backhills! Or you’re shooting free throws, and you get a guy in his 40s who’s normally a sane person, but he’s like, whoo! Got those sticks, he’s waving up there, woo, woo. Right, and then everyone on your team has a wife or a girlfriend that wants to travel with the team.

There’s injuries, there’s the constant threat. I mean, Z, when was the last time you traded one of your optometrists to the competition? They came to work and you said, Boatwright, you’re traded. You’re the OD to be named later. Sorry, you’re out of here. And by the way, you’re traded to a different city.

And what does that mean back in the trading, when they say a player to be named later? What does that even mean? I don’t think that’s crazy. I mean, these are, these are, I mean, imagine what you’d, so Phil Jackson talks when you’re coaching a team, he’s like, these players could be traded at any moment, and a lot of times they are.

Oh yeah. So you’re like, got your 15 guys, pretty small pack, and then one day you’re like, what happened to that guy? What happened to Billy? Well, Scotty Pippin, who’s now the leader of the Bulls, Scotty Pippin begins to assert his leadership skills, and on page 121, Phil Jackson talks about how he liked to run practices.

He says, this is what I was trying to do with the Bulls. My goal was to act as instinctively as possible, to allow the players like Scottie to lead the team from within. I wanted them to be able to flow with the action, the way the tree bends with the wind. That’s why I put so much emphasis on having tightly structured practices. I would assert myself forcefully in the practice to imbue the players with a strong vision of where we needed to go and what we had to do

I had to do to get there But once the game began I would slip into the background and let the players orchestrate the attack Occasionally I would step in making a defensive adjustment or ship players around with we needed a burst of energy But for the most part I let the players like Scottie take the lead. So he talked to me about how this relates to your management philosophy, which I see you do all the time.

The businesses can kind of run themselves if you are effective at training your managers. Talk about that. That’s what it’s about. I mean, do you want to be a manager? Do you want to have time freedom, financial freedom? And so a lot of times what will happen is that when people come to me and I say, what

are you doing? Well, I don’t, I don’t, uh, why are you still doing that? Well, I don’t trust my manager to do that. And I’m like, trust? Why not? Well, that’s a very important thing, and therefore I feel like I need to still micromanage that

or I still need to be on top of that. I still need to do that. So you need to do it. If you want it done right, you’ve got to do it yourself. Exactly. And so I look at them and I say, well, let them do it.

Train them how to do it and let them do it. Well, they’ll make a mistake. I go, they will. If you want to create time, freedom, and financial freedom, you’ve got to learn to become an effective delegator. We come back, Zeal will talk more about how to train your managers to manage.

If you want someone to help you manage your finances, manage your accounting, if you’re saying, I need some help here, I just go to hoodcpas.com. So it might be saying, what are you saying? That’s hoodcpas.com. Someone says, could you say that like an owl? That’s hood, hood, hoodcpas.com.

Stay tuned. This is Rob Thompson Show on the radio. like my Yoda dude, he showed me the force like I was a young moose. Are you gonna go see the new Han Solo movie? Is that something that’s on your list? I mean, you’re a busy guy. Let’s get together. We should. Yeah, let’s take the kids and let’s do it together. We should do it. Is Vanessa into those kind of movies? Yes. Oh, cool. I can tell you this,

my wife and I, we talk, I talk about this a lot on the show, and people ask me all the time, they say, how do you work with your wife? I want to get this clear for the listeners out there. I want to get this clear. There are two suckles. Two suckles. There is the Vanessa suckle and there is the Clay suckle.

Ah, two suckles. Now, if you ever see in nature, if you watch the Honey Guide… Do you know a lot about the Honey Guide? The Honey Guide? You’ve told me about that. The Honey Guide is a bird that flies around and it tells the honey badger where the bee

is, where the bee hives are. Where the honey is. Where the snakes are. And then it points it out and the honey badger goes and kills the snake. Gets bitten, gets stung, whatever. And then it leaves a portion of the bounty for the honey guy.

The bird comes down there, eats, and the honey badger would die without the bird and the bird would die without the honey badger. It’s a very win-win, a copacetic relationship. I need to get some YouTube videos on that because that just sounds so cool. We will watch it. We’ll watch it.

So what my wife does is my wife will say stuff like, private lessons, gymnastics. And I go, I think you mean private lessons, gymnastics. And I go, I think what she means is I need to go sell something to pay for private lessons, gymnastics. Correct.

Or she’ll say, a house with the wall. And I’m like, I think she means a house with the wall, right? So what I do is so she kind of points out where the where the bounty is or she’ll say you need to stop working with all these startups and Work with people that are diligent if there’s if you find a diligent startup honey, you work with them or a company That’s already existing

but don’t work with these people who are like Want to start a business and have it be successful in 30 days like avoid those people like the plague and I go, okay Cool, okay 12 years ago. She says honey. You’re meeting people for free for lunch every day. You’re working with like Fashionos, you’re working with like icing on the top, these companies, and they’re all growing and they’re not paying you. And I’m like, but they’re my buddies.

They’re my buddies. I’m trying to help them. I’m trying to help them. And she goes, why don’t you charge? And hence, you know, 12 years ago I started business coaching. I mean, these are just, my wife’s good at pointing that out.

And so what happens is we have the intersection of the two circles. You call it the vesica pisces. And in the middle of the intersection of the two circles, it’s like the Olympic rings where they connect in the middle. We connect on Star Wars. We connect on business.

We connect on grilling. We connect on… We love to work together. And that’s kind of our love language. Some couples, though, they don’t… But you don’t connect on every aspect of your lives.

Right, and then those are the areas where we really don’t get into that conversation. to you about a prophecy and what the prophet meant. My wife is very into the prophetic word and it freaks me out. I’m going, I know God is real, but I know my smartphone is real, but it freaks me out if we talk too much about how it works. She wants to dive deep into that, but I want to dive deep into how Google works.

And she’s like, why do you want to talk about that? So all I would say is if you’re out there listening and you have a business partner or someone in your life, find the vesica pisces. Find the intersection of those two circles. That’s what Bill Jackson, Bill Jackson is so good, the former NBA coach of the Chicago Bulls and the Los Angeles Lakers.

Because all these players, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, they’re fighting with their teammates. They can’t find the intersection of the two circles. And then he does that, and that’s part of that management. We talked about before the break how to train up those managers. And that’s one of the things that you do with your managers. You find out some things where you overlap with them that you can connect with them on

because your managers should be in your inner circle. One of your inner circles, not your closest circle, but one of your inner circles. And they should be people that have direct access to you, that when they call you answer, that when you’re very responsive when they call. And the thing about it is, I have learned a couple of stages of the management thing. The first one is, early on, they’re afraid to make a decision.

And so therefore, they don’t want to make a mistake. And therefore, they get locked up a lot. I want to replace the toilet paper, but I don’t know if Z would approve. We’ve always bought three ply. I don’t know whether to go to two ply or not. I’m going to check the handbook.

I know it’s not in there. Billy, why did you run out of gas? I didn’t want to fill up without asking. I didn’t want to do it. Okay, so we’ve got that person. So that’s kind of stage one.

We’re trying to build their security. You’re trying to build their, you know, hey, you can do it. You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. And then you get into the zone of, yeah, they’re making mistakes.

I swear, I laid off the entire team on Thursday because this one guy, he was talking back to me. I was like, all 14 of you, if it ain’t good enough, they’ll run my way or the highway. And you’re going, you laid off everyone? Let’s think about this. That’s just how, I mean, in your handbook it says, it’ll be on time or they’ll fire

it, right? So I fired them all. Boom. Boom. Boom. So then all of a sudden they’re making mistakes, but mistakes are really mentoring moments

or teaching moments for you. And one thing about that stage is whenever you get in that stage, you have to inspect what you expect a lot. A lot. You’ve got to stay on top of it. I’m not talking hourly.

I’m not talking minute by minute, but I’m talking minute by minute. I was watching the real-time video of you doing your job all day, every day, Bjorn, and I noticed that at 2.03 you wave with your right hand, not your left hand, or the customer. That’s a violation of the code. Don’t micro. Right, but think about it.

You have to inspect what you expect. Okay? And then kind of the third phase of management that I see, the third phase of management, is when all of a sudden they start kind of doing more than you want them to do. I totally revised all the checklists.

I totally took off all the unnecessary things. I changed all the checklists and I maybe streamlined it. You can’t change the checklists. Don’t do that, Mr. If you’re uplisting right now and you go work for an established company, don’t change all the checklists. Do you know the line they tell you, though?

What? Here’s the line. I know you’re busy and I didn’t want to bother you with it. So I changed everything. So I made a lot of high level decisions because I didn’t want to bother you with it. You know, I know for 26 years you’ve been called Dr. Robert Zeldin Associates, but I went ahead and just changed it to Roberts. Because it’s

better for marketing. Rob feels more personal and because it would be less money with less letters I just called it Rob’s. It sounds like that. You’re just like, what? What? What? And then you go, then you, then you, then that third phase you have to say, okay, listen,

let’s talk about where I need to get involved into a decision and ones you can’t and you know, it’s a balancing act. Now Michael Jordan was not a natural leader until Jackson discovered that Scottie Pitton was probably that level three kind of manager you’re talking about. And Scottie says, Scottie page 122, he reads, Scottie was a different kind of leader. He was more easygoing than Michael. He’d listen patiently to his teammates vent, then try to do something about whatever was troubling them. I think the guys gravitated

towards Scottie because he was more like us, says Steve Kerr. Michael was a dominant presence that at times he didn’t seem human. Nothing could get to Michael. Scottie was more human, more vulnerable like us. So again, that’s Steve Kerr talking about his experience and how Scotty Pippin was kind of like the leader of the team, but yet Michael was the top performing sales guy, the top performing athlete. And that’s a beautiful example of how, just because the guy is maybe the best at making

baskets and playing defense, does not make him necessarily the captain on the field. You know, speaking of a guy who can make great baskets if he wanted to, or a company that could make anything. These guys could probably make space rockets, but instead they choose to supply Tulsa with the best printer cartridges, the best printing cartridges, the best office supplies. Now, see, these guys could challenge Mr. Bridenstine. They could reach out to him and say, hey, Mr. NASA, we would like to make the rockets.

We have to challenge SpaceX here. But instead, they’ve chosen to do this. And these guys are great. They’re sharp. They’re lame. Their stuff will be on time.

It’s going to be delivered. They’ll beat anybody’s price that’s onyx imaging if you’re saying look I’m passionate about going to office depot paying too much for retail office supplies don’t call them don’t just don’t do if you want to save time and money then you got to reach out to our friends at onyx imaging that’s onyx imaging calm what was that onyx imaging calm what’s your phone number their

phone number is nine one eight six two seven six six one one that’s nine one 918-627-6611. Onyx Imaging. Call them today. Stay tuned. Z, we’re still here. We’re still here. We still have time. We still have a little bit of time. Stay tuned for more Phil Jackson on the Thrived Time Show on your radio. It’s so good. No negative emotion, cause that’s what business is. Always dominate, cause I got five kids.

I will not lose, I don’t break for clues. They can talk about me, I can take that abuse. Here is the truth, while they make that excuse. I’ll be up grinding, cause the scoreboard’s the truth. He is my mentor, like my Yoda dude. He showed me the force, like I was a young noose.

Oh, Dr. Z, it is ecstasy if you are next to me. Oh, so much fun. I tell you what, let’s go see the new Han Solo movie. I’m committing right now. Okay, let’s do it. We’re going to do it. Here’s the deal also, you just discovered the opinion board that I’m currently burning in the studio while we’re recording.

I didn’t know that you stumbled upon that. Yes, we did. Dude, I know I was going to get a beverage in the said refrigerator and I had to walk through the workout room, i.e. the garage, which is a seaman floor in fairness. Right. And actually Butterchup found it first and he said, see, come here. And I said, what?

He said, I about kicked this. There’s a piece of pinion wood on the floor. You lift it up and it’s got coals underneath. It’s actually burning. Right. It’s burning.

Brilliant. You’re in a man cave, right? Yes. So, we have a floor separation. My wife… The house is really…

Isn’t every house really a woman cave? Yes, it is. And then you have an area… A lot of guys, what happens when you first get married, what will happen is your wife, if she is an effective woman, she’ll immediately say, can we just put your stuff in the garage?

It’s an effective, pragmatic move. Just put it in the garage, and then over time, it’s like, could you put that in the attic? Pretty soon, all the Christmas stuff goes in there, and now your Joe Montana stuff, all your posters are hidden, all your coffee tables are hidden, your bean bags are gone, your Sega Genesis is gone. But what I’ve done in the man cave is we’ve taken all those things from the back of every man’s…

It’s a reverse attic….closet, their attic, their garage. It’s all front and center. You know what? It’s a lovely space, too. It is.

I feel when I walk in here, I just feel my testosterone levels rise. Well, a lot of guys have taken testosterone to boost, you know, to get themselves where they want to go, get that testosterone count, count up the low T as a thing, you know. Some guys just go in the man cave. That’s how you mean. I’ll just walk in and…

Now you smell it. Right. Now what we’re talking about today is the management philosophies and principles of Phil Jackson that allowed him to take the floundering Chicago Bulls, who already had Michael Jordan and Scottie Piven, and allow them to win six championships. He joined the Los Angeles Lakers and the floundering Kobe Bryant and the floundering Shaquille O’Neal.

And he led them to championships. When he was gone, they didn’t win. When he was there, they won. His job was to manage people effectively. And Phil Jackson was phenomenal at this. On page 124 of his book, 11 Rings, he writes, he’s talking about how he gets the most out

of players. He says, you want to create an ongoing process for reaching your potential and doing the work needed to realize your vision. So he’s talking about it. He gets together with all the players. He wants to make sure that each player is achieving the most they can on the court and

off the court. Not just on the court. Right. Why would he want to make sure that all the players off the court are trying to reach their potential and realize their vision as it doesn’t relate to basketball? Well, you know, he’s a genius, isn’t he?

He figured out that as much as we tell our employees to say, hey, listen, leave those problems at the door. I know your dad may have just been diagnosed with this. I know your kid may have just been run over by a car. I know whatever the situation is. I know your dad just filed bankruptcy.

Whatever it is that’s going on. I know you can’t find your mojito, but you did leave that at the door. I know you didn’t find your mojito deal today, but the reality is those things affect them. And when they affect them, they affect them at work. Alright? As much as we want to say, leave all that at the door, I mean, forget about that for

the next eight hours. Right, but no. It’s difficult. So by helping, by getting involved in their personal life in that regard, and just making sure they’re more well-rounded. Why don’t you show me your rash?

It makes them a more well-rounded person, which in turn makes him a better teammate, which in turn… Which in turn wins championships. Which in turn wins championships. Management is mentorship, right? You can’t get past that.

Bingo. Now here is the thing about Phil Jackson. For those of you who haven’t heard the previous shows, this is a three-part series on the excellence of management from Phil Jackson. Derrick Chubb, you’re not a big basketball guy, but I think you remember. Phil Jackson had one play.

All these other coaches have like 55 plays. They’re calling a play, hey do this, do that. They name them like Omaha or Tennessee. The annexation of Puerto Rico. And there’s all these plays where this guy moves here and that guy moves here and this guy.

He had one play. There’s no corners. No. No corner, corner. No. No corner, corner.

No corner, corner. It’s the pyramid. It’s the pyramid. It’s the pyramid. It’s not the square. It’s the circle.

It’s inside the circle. It’s the pyramid. 1, 2, 3. He had one, it’s called the triangle. One offense for his entire time coaching. It’s called the triangle.

So people ask him, well, what were the plays you used? The triangle. Which involved the players moving in a rhythmic pattern. And everything has a way, it’s basically, learn this play, do this play, this is what we do. So he says on page 125, our biggest enemy during the 1992 season was boredom.

Life in the NBA can be stultifying, mind-numbing experience, particularly when you’re on a long road trip and every minute of every day is scheduled. My goal was to get the players to break free from a confining basketball cocoon and explore the deeper, more spiritual aspects of life. By spiritual, I don’t mean religious. I mean the act of self-discovery that happens when you step beyond your routine and the way you see

the world. Because his offense isn’t going to change. We’re just going to say, hey guys, today we’re going to run the triangle. Tomorrow we’re going to run the triangle. So let’s break it down into your business. Let’s go with your optometry clinic.

Do you not run the same special for the last 26 years? What’s the special? Oh my gosh, you’re giving away my… I thought it changed. No, no. Yeah, we have a $99 special now.

Free shoes with your glasses! Free shoes with your glasses! But it’s the same thing though. Every day at the office, it is a triangle. You know, greet them, check them in, pre-test, you know, exam. No circle.

No square. It’s a triangle. And you get… The one thing about it, when you run the same play over and over and over, you get really, really good at it. And here’s what happens.

You’re going to hire a new person. I’m sure, Corey, mentor with Trinity Employment, you’ve never hired this person. I’m sure Eric Chup never coached a client like this. I’m sure Z, you’ve never seen this. You hire a new person. Now the person’s usually, now Z, I’m going to give you the profile of the new person.

They’re like 32, 28. They’ve gone to college for some time. They come in, and this is their advice to you, Z, because you’re the business owner, or to me. They’re going to say, bro, you want to put a new post on social media like every day with like a new special because engagement’s the key. Probably like twice a day. Victory bro. Elephant in the room bro. If you do like men’s

tips like a new one every day bro. And so they convince you that you need to Instagram your way to success. A new promotion every day. Oh yeah. A new idea. Oh yeah. A new. Reinvent yourself every day. Z are you networking? Z are you a part of the and Z there’s like there’s a local chamber. There’s the local Christian whatever group. There’s a local pagan whatever group, there’s the local Shriners, there’s the Masonic, there’s all these groups.

And you, bro, you should go to all those, bro. You need to be more involved in the community, bro. We can’t do the same thing. Get out of there, bro. Do they not want to come up with a new move every day? Does this not happen when you hire a new person who’s young enough to be ambitious with new

ideas? They’ve been on Pinterest way too long. Here they come into your office, giving you a big to-do list of things for you to review. Oh my gosh. This is not happening. Where’s you out?

And you’re kind of going, we’re good to, you know, we’re a three-legged stool, but we’ve got cooking, what, the marketing moves we’re doing now. The triangle. We’re doing, we’re trying, we’re sticking with the triangle. Oh no, you should see this. So this is, this is what I would tell you.

This is what I would tell you. Pick and roll on my house. This is my teaching moment I want to give people. Excellent people bore down doing the same thing over and over and over until they get great at it. People that are never excellent get boredom.

They struggle with boredom. So, Z, you and your business, you have the discipline to do the same thing over and over and over and over and it works, but yet you fight your boredom by having fun when you’re not at work because the business exists to serve you. Right? Absolutely.

Come on now. Come on. That’s what you do. That’s what you have to do. You have to do it right. You have to do it well and continue to do it the same way.

Just pound it. That triangle. I love that. One play. One play. One play.

Here’s the thing. Eleven rings. If you insert variety into your… with a new marketing every month, a new marketing move every month, what’s going to happen? You’re now going to spend all your time… and it’s exciting knowing if it’s not going to work.

It’s exciting being stressed out. It’s exciting screwing up everything, right? See, that’s exciting. It is exciting. It’s the unknown. You’re like, oh, what’s going to happen next?

Let’s do a new ad this week. Oh, wait a second. I’ve got to make sure and tell all my folks about the new ad. Because everyone’s going to come in talking about it because they’re on the radio and a lot of people don’t know about it. So now I’ve got to work harder.

So now I’ve got the new thing going, I’ve got to make sure all my guys know about the new thing. Right. So here’s what Phil Jackson does. Phil Jackson meets with every player and helps them fight boredom by becoming the best they can be off the court. And he gives them all a book to read.

And we come back from the break, I’m going to break down the reading list that Phil Jackson gave his players during one particular season. He discloses in his book which books he recommended to the specific players. Now Z, we have a company out there that’s running the triangle offense of pest control, Chuck. It’s the triangle offense.

It’s unstoppable. No sucko. They run the same play over and over. Chuck, these guys have a great no-brainer. Their company is growing. They’re a business coaching client.

They’ve got the online ads rocking. They’ve got retargeting ads rocking. They’re getting Google reviews every week. And they’re growing dramatically, Chuck. Tell us about the good folks at Platinum Pest and Lawn. Well, they’re not only growing, they’re delivering on their service, which is a huge part of

growing your business, scaling yourself. And so, Platinum Pest and Lawn, you can get a hold of these guys at platinum-pestcontrol.com. Platinum-pestcontrol.com. You know, Chubb, you don’t have a mosquito in your mojito because of Platinum Pest. Because I hired them. No bees by your knees. They are awesome. I got ants everywhere. Ants everywhere. They send you a photo of the person that’s going to come out so you know you can expect who’s going to be

there. It’s really awesome. They call you the day of and the day before to confirm. Call these guys today. They’re going to do a free termite inspection. If they find damage, they’ll actually do $200 off of your termite treatment. So 918-376-0857. One more time. 918-376-0857.

Yeah. Platinum-PestControl.com for your free termite inspection. $200 off your first treatment. Thank you. And now, broadcasting live from the box that rocks, it’s the Thrivetime Business Coach Radio Show. We’re hot at learning and hot at earning.

Getting to the top like we’re hiking Mount Vernon. We’re changing the mindsets like we’re incense burning. Passing on the magic like the name was Irving. Serving up that knowledge like I was a servant. And I cite what I say so you know I’m not a servant. Thrivetime show, bringing the heat while fervent.

Giving it to you straight in the war-back swing. Stacking the cash, making the dash. Hunting the plaques, bringin’ them back, bring me the tracks so I can get up on them, I can speak the facts. Suckin’ the cash, makin’ the dash, runnin’ the plaques, bringin’ them back, bring me the tracks so I can get up on them, I can speak the facts.

You know, see, if I had a dollar for every plaque that I’ve been given as a result of doing a speaking event, I would have more dollars. There you go. And you know what? I like, you know what? When I hear that ditty you just wrote, something just pops in my mind.

When you say, give it to your straight, in a world that’s swerving. I know, give it to you straight like a shot of bourbon. Why does that come to my mind? I feel like… I’m not a big bourbon drinker. Here’s my challenge that I give to you that ends up becoming a boomerang challenge for me.

Oh, I wonder what it did. Over the weekend, or whenever you have an epiphany, you text me some random crazy thing that you want to do an intro about, and then the next week you’ll get it. But I need a Saturday through a Sunday to do it. So it could be, talk about bourbons and raccoons and the fair market value of a good horse. And I’ll be like, okay, let’s do it.

I’m like, some stuff’s already swirling in my head. I’ll get it to you. Or it could be a shout-out intro. We could do a shout-out intro for like, Monty. I mean, is Monty not a great guy at the auto auction? Absolutely.

Absolutely. He’s an unbelievable. What’s his official title? Is it Chief of Awesome? General Manager. General Manager of the Auto Auction.

Monty. He’s as put together as the auction is. Oh yeah. He’s high and tight. He’s like a Brad Pitt of the auto auction. Yes.

The auto auction world, yeah. I’ve noticed that a lot of women are just showing up and not looking to buy vehicles. They’re just going to wave. Hi, Monty. One thousand dollars for Monty. Yeah, if we’d auctioned him off, we’d probably get…

Man, Monty’s a hot item. He’s a beautiful man. See, we’re talking about Phil Jackson and how he was able to coach the listing. Remember, the Bulls had Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Horace Grant, and they’re just out there… How could they lose?

With those guys, how could you lose? Well, I’ll tell you why. Because they had a coach named Doug Collins. And Doug Collins would call a different play every play. He’d walk up and down the sidelines constantly barking out plays and like looking at the players He’s watching the other team and he’s like blue 47 go over here

Do it and so Phil Jackson points out he’s gone Phil Jackson’s very Zen very meta very Philosophical Phil says the players can’t hear you There’s 15,000 people screaming maybe three to five of them. Maybe three of the five here you didn’t give a time Yeah, maybe you’re paying attention to their their their guys who are playing the adrenalines going, the other guy is talking trash, they’re talking about each other as mothers. It’s like an intense situation.

Some fan in the front row is like, hey, Michael Jordan, you suck. There’s always people like that. Oh, yeah. They’re not going to remember. If you call it a play, they’re not going to remember. They’re going to be trenches.

I mean, Z, for you, if I said Z, list right now the 10 insurance companies that you prefer to work with at your optometry clinic, you would say… If I had to do… oh, I don’t know. No, no. If I said, see, real quick, give me a list off for me of the phone numbers of all your companies. Go. Oh, uh, oh. That’s the same thing with me. I don’t know.

Yeah, I’ve talked to some of them. So they’re yelling, like, Omaha! And they’re like, uh… Did he say Omaha or did he say grab-a-haul? Did he say pass the ball? Right. He said the ball.

He says a lot of the NBA one-on-one that you see is where a player doesn’t know what you’re saying, so they’re like, I’m just going to take it to the hole. Apparently I’m going to score a basket. So he came up with this offense called the triangle offense. Every night, imagine what it would be like playing for the guys. Guys, here’s the deal.

We’re playing today against the Pistons. So I want you guys to know we’re going to run the triangle. What offense are we running tonight, Coach? Well, we’re going to be on the road versus the Lakers. Magic Johnson is very good, so we’ll be running the Triangle. Bold move.

Right, so the whole thing was to get people to run it well over and over instead of having a new offense every night. So the players would struggle with boredom because they would beat the crap out of everybody. Because the offense allowed Michael to flow within the offense, Scottie Pippen. The team just wins, and they’re interchangeable parts. So the year that Michael Jordan retired, they had an unbelievable year.

They were one game away from going to the finals the year that Michael was out. It’s like the Patriots offense. It just works. And so Horace Grant was a power forward. He says, I’m peacing out, I’m going to the Magic. Fine.

You take those goggles, you go to the Magic. I mean, Jon Paxson retires to become an announcer. They’re like, fine. They bring in Steve Kurtz. The same deal. It’s interchangeable parts.

And this is what he does to keep the players from getting bored. And what you, the listener, here, we should do to keep our teammates from getting bored. Shep, you’ve got to engage your office staff. Right, and to link this to your company out there, Mr. or Ms. Listener, the reason you have to keep your teammates or your employees from getting bored is because it is a culture killer.

That is where the gossip starts. That is where the ideas come from. It’s a porno. Oh, yeah. When people are sitting around without somebody to do something, without somebody holding them accountable to doing it, they start to get crazy.

So pay attention to what Clay’s about to say because you have to make sure that you fight boredom inside your office. You know, Chum, let me show notes. But Proverbs 16, 27 through 29 would agree with you, Chum, they’re very, very, very proverbial view. Say it again.

Idle hands are the devil’s workshop. Proverbs 16, 27 through 29. Idle hands are the devil’s workshop. Idle lips are his mouthpiece. An evil man sows strife, gossip separates the best of friends, wickedness loves company and leads others into sin.”

So Phil Jackson, this is what he says, on page 126 of his book, 11 Rings, he says, “…getting the players to turn inward wasn’t always easy, see. Not everyone on the Bulls was interested in spiritual realization, but I didn’t hit them over the head with it. My approach was subtle. Every year the team went on a long West Coast road trip in November when the circus took over the

stadium for a few weeks. Before the trip, I would select a book for each of the players to read based on what I knew about them. Here’s a typical list. This is from one of his years. Right.

Song of Solomon for Michael Jordan. Wow. Things Fall Apart for Bill Cartwright. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, John Paxson. The Ways of White Folks, Scotty Pippin. Joshua, A Parable for Today, Horace Grant.

Zen Mind and the Beginner’s Mind, B.J. Armstrong. Way of the Peaceful Warrior, Craig Hodges. On the Road, by Wiltford Wilk, Will Purdue. And Beavis and Butthead, this book sucks for Stacey King. What he did is he gave them something to read that he had already read based upon their personality. He could talk about it with them and keep them engaged because you’ve got to

understand they’re playing 82 games a year. Now think about elephant in the room. If you work at elephant in the room, the men’s grooming lounge, and you have no aspirations to become a manager. You know what you get to do every week? Every Friday, Chip, you’ve seen it.

I have a meeting with our entire staff. Right. And what do we talk about? Sales and… Selling memberships? Yeah, just all of the key performance indicators to make sure the company is going in the right

direction. Let’s see. The number of reviews. I want to make sure that if we get a bad review, we resolve it. If we screw up, let’s fix it. So I want to fix what caused the bad review.

Two, how many members do we have? Three, what percentage of our members are happy? And there’s metrics we have for that. Product sales quotas. And we just role play over and over. And then Cynthia works with the team on how to do a better cut every week.

How to do a better cut every week. How to do a better cut every week. This week we’ll do the triangle. How to do a better cut. How to do a better cut. And at your optometry clinic, Z, what do you talk about every day?

I mean, you’re not in the day-to-day anymore, but when you were there back in the day, every day, what would you talk about every day at your optometry clinic? What kind of things would you talk about over and over? Cleanliness? Yeah, being clean, being high and tight, not having clutter in the hallway. So cleaning the offices.

Boxes. Yeah, boxes. I hate that. Cleanliness is godliness. I hate that. How we…

How greeting people… I think greeting people and that first… When they walk in the door, how you greet them is so very important. Did you ever get bored with yourself? I mean, because you have to bring it showtime every day, but did you ever find yourself going, self…

Gosh, I don’t know if I want to talk about clean bathrooms again, but we have a new hire, so I have to do it. Absolutely. I mean, you do, but you smile about it, and you’re excited about it, and you’re like, hey, guess what we can talk about today? We love being back there.

We’re not to park. We’re not to park. So how do you in your businesses, because you’re an expert manager, you hold your team accountable every day, and you know it, if you hold people accountable, over time they begin to hate you. And so you have to replace people.

How do you, now that you’re used to just hire somebody, they work for a couple years, they become entitled, they move on, hire people. How do you fight the boredom? What do you do? Do you do finger paintings? Do you do a lot of Bob Ross videos in the mornings? Are you watching you know what a mystery new flavors of Doritos? I mean, what’s your move? I watch a cat video every day

What do you do because that’s what makes a successful company is the consistency? Well, here’s what you have to do You have to just determine that you’re going to be happy that you’re gonna be excited that it’s gonna be fun that you’re gonna Be in a good mood you can decide that. It’s not a mystery thing. You don’t have to go, well, if I come in today and one of my employees is snarky with me,

it’s over. It’s over. I’m going to be in a… People know when you come in, when you walk in that door, you set the tone. You set the tone. You set the tone.

So you can do one of two things. You can say, hey, you know what? I have a reason to be snarky. I have a reason to be upset. You know, Billy didn’t park where he was supposed to park, so I’m upset about that as I’m walking the door.

There’s trash around the building that wasn’t picked up, that was supposed to be picked up. Someone missed out on the check. Dude, I see this with a lot of Christian business owners in the Midwest here. What’s happening is you’re listening to like Glenn Beck, okay? You got Glenn Beck going on, you got a little Fox News going on.

I see it with liberals too, it’s the same. Conservative or liberal, it’s the same move. You’re watching CNN a little too long. You probably watched a little too deep on the conspiracy theory about the fall of the currency. Fall of the currency.

We’re about to get you. And you bring it into your office. So you’re like, guys, I got to tell you. They say, how are you, boss? You go, I’ll tell you what. Illuminati.

Illuminati. Did you get your in-time food? Iran has nukes. OK. Iran has nukes. That’s all it is.

No launching. Have you bought your ammo? Have you bought your ammo? You know they’re going to outlaw it soon. Yeah. Frigging everyone smoking pot.

Yeah. Stocked. But I mean, you see that. Corey, do you not see that, Corey with Trinity Employment, do you not see, as you as the owner of the business, could you not come in and ruin the atmosphere of your office if you’re not careful?

Oh, absolutely. And, you know, some days when I’m just absolutely like, I just feel exactly like what you just described to Z, where I just am not interested in going in, and I know I’ve got to go into one of the meetings because we have the same meetings all the time. Right. And I just tell myself before I walk in, I’m like, listen, throw your face on, get excited, excite everybody else, because

you’re exactly right. See, you can set the mood. And I’ve done it wrong enough to know what that means whenever I walk in with a bad mood. I got to jump in here. I got to brag on Mr. Clay Clark, show host here. I have never seen a business or worked in a business where this is the culture as much

as it is at Thrive. I can say that for almost three years now, I don’t know that I’ve ever walked in and had any of the team members or anybody complain to me or heard them complaining to anybody about their issues. It’s show time. It’s time to work. Let’s go.

You’re there for people when they need it, but at work, it’s time to do work. Well, this is a thing that I have found. I’ve been trying to curse, Les, you know, I’ve been trying to curse. Like, you know, I have kids. Oh, good for you. And your kids will copy things, you know.

Let them do it. Let them do it. You know, but you don’t want to do it, but what’s so funny is we have our coaches meeting at 6, and the other day a question blew my mind. It was like, I have a question. My client is, and this client was just a very not good person.

We had to just tell him, here’s a refund, just not a good fit. But this guy was like, he’s the kind of guy who screams at his wife in the meeting. Yes, yes, good stuff. Are you kidding me? Are you, I wasn’t… Don’t speak, woman, that kind of stuff.

Oh yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Pump the brakes, big guy. And so I was just… There’s a camera right there. Oh yeah.

I was trying to explain in kind of a calm, meta way, like, hey, we just need to let the client go. Let’s just refund them. We’ll just move on. Flow like water. Water.

And then the person asked the question again, though. They’re like, but he said, and I’m like, you gotta just let it go. I’m just trying. Chep’s watching me. He sees it. I’m just like, alright, here’s the deal.

And I have to like, well, at least I didn’t get upset. Because I did get upset. And I had to own it real fast and recover. You have to be self-aware. That’s the big teaching moment. And Phil Jackson was so self-aware.

One of the things that Phil Jackson was great at doing was also breaking the tension. We come back, I want to explain a specific example where the game is on the line, all the players are in the huddle, everyone is nervous, and Michael Jordan is irritated any time they don’t call his number for the final shot. One, because he wanted to win every scoring title, and he constantly knew how many points per game he was scoring, and two, he felt like he was the best.

And so Phil Jackson gets the team together, and we’re going to hear what he said to break the tension in that kind of an intense situation. And I’ll tell you, if you’re looking for a chiropractor who can help release the tension, Chuck, help you get your spine in line, help you get in feeling great. Get your back on track. Tell us about Dr. Sibley. You’ve got to go check out drjohnsibley.com.

D-R-Johnsibley.com. Call him at 918-749-5741. He’s located right there at 51st and Harvard. He’s going to do a free chiropractic assessment, x-ray, and your first treatment. If you call him today, let him know that the guys at Thrive sent you. DrJohnSibley.com, 918-749-5741.

918-749-5741. Send him a fax like this. 3, 2, 1, boom! You are now entering the dojo of Mojo and the Thrive Time Show. Thrive Time Show on the microphone. What is this?

Top of the iTunes charts in the category of business. Drilling down on business topics like we are a dentist. Providing you with mentorship like you are an apprentice. And we go so fast that you might get motion sickness. Grab a pen and pad to the lab. Let’s get in this. It’s time to best some fruit like some Florida O’Engins.

Three, two, one, here come the business ninjas! Alright, Thrive Nation, welcome back to the conversation. We’re talking about the management skills, the philosophy and the principles that allowed Phil Jackson to take Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. A lot of people say Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of all time. How many championships did he win, Chuck, before Phil Jackson coached him?

I know this one. And after. It’s zero on both accounts. What about Kobe Bryant? Many consider Kobe to be one of the best basketball players of all time. Well, that’s a different…

How many championships did he… Now, Kobe won a championship five times when Phil Jackson was his coach. And how many times when Phil Jackson wasn’t his coach? Completely different scenario, but he won zero. Same scenario. Zero championships.

Zero. I wonder what their legacy would be if they won all those scoring titles and never won a championship. I wonder if it’s the coaching. Weird. Okay, so we move on.

So page 130 of Phil Jackson’s incredible book called 11 Rings, where he documents his philosophy towards managing people. And if you manage people at all… Let me tell you what, Z, when you start a company, everyone’s excited about their idea. They say, we make these unbelievable knives. We’re one of the best in the world. I love painting so much. I want to start a home decor, home painting company. See, I

love automotive maintenance so much. I want to start an automotive maintenance company. I love making cakes so much. I was picking cars for my friends and we weren’t even charging them for it. Let me tell you this. Hopefully this doesn’t suck the soul of somebody. If If you are a photographer and you want to build a photography business, the only thing you don’t need to know about and that you will never do again is photography. We talked about this today.

If you are pouring concrete and you want to build a concrete company, I mean a really magnificent company, the one thing that you don’t want to think about and that you’ll never do again is concrete. Because you’ll be managing people is the hardest thing in the world for any business owner to do. In fact, John D. Rockefeller, the world’s wealthiest man, he talked about the ability

to manage people. Z, are you aware of this ability to manage people quote? Because you do it. You do it through osmosis. But are you a big John D. Rockefeller guy? Yeah, I’m a big John D. Rockefeller guy.

Yeah, let’s have him on the show one of these days. Well, I’ve got to call out. We’ll have to dig up his body. This is what John D. Rockefeller says in his book, Titan. He says, the ability to deal with people is as purchasable a commodity as sugar or coffee. And I will pay more for that ability than any other under the sun.

So Michael Jordan is in a spot in his career where he decides, I’m not going to come back and play next year. And Scotty Pippin says, I demand to be traded to the Seattle Supersonics. And the general manager is like, no, no, no, come on back guys. And they’re going, nope. They said, why?

Why aren’t you coming back? They said, we want Phil Jackson. We cannot win without Phil. And I’ll tell you why here, because Phil is a master of management. So on page 110, this is what Phil Jackson writes here. He says, they’re playing versus the Phoenix Suns.

The game was an all-out battle. Afterward, the best slogan for the series would be, 3 the hard way, because the Sons’ defense held us to only 12 points in the fourth quarter. Our defense was even more effective, restricting the Sons to a paltry 24% shooting average in the final period. Z, it all came down to a play that put a smile on Tech’s winner’s face. This is the guy who made the triangle.

The triangle. Tech’s winner. Jordan came into the game with eight minutes left and took over scoring nine points in the period Including a breakaway jam that put us within two points at the 32nd mark at the break I called the players together and I said with a straight face Guys, let’s go away from MJ

Some of the players looked at me as if I as if as if I were mad Then they realized I wasn’t serious and the tension broke. Because the whole thing is all of the players were irritated that they never got a chance to shoot the ball. I mean, Scottie Pippen was one of the best players. Scottie Pippen played on the first Dream Team and destroyed Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler,

Carl Malone. Everybody was like, Scottie’s definitely the second best player in the NBA. And there were some games where he actually outplayed Jordan. But on the Bulls, he was always like the number two guy. Right, setting fiddle. And so Scotty actually demanded to be traded at times, he was frustrated, he felt like

he wasn’t being utilized. So Kyrie Irving of this day and age. Yes, so to break the tension though, he huddles all the guys together and he looks at them all because Scotty’s like, are they going to call my number? So he looks at Scotty Pippen and says, guys, for this play, let’s go away from Michael. And you know Scottie’s like, yeah, yeah.

And then he cracks a smile and you know Scottie’s like, frick. Of course not. What I’m saying is that’s how it worked. And he says, as it turned out, it wouldn’t be Michael who took the final shot. He dribbled up the court and hit Pippen, who passed it back to MJ. But the Suns defense collapsed on him.

He passed the ball back to Scottie, who started driving towards the basket. At the last moment, Scottie dished it off to Horace on the baseline. Then Horace, who saw Danny Ainge closing in to foul him, tossed the ball to Paxson, who was wide open at the top of the key, and John nailed the three-pointer. It wasn’t the shot that captivated me. However, it was the pass from Michael that led to the pass from Scottie that led to the

pass to Horace that led to the pass to Paxson. That night, the triangle was a thing of beauty. That night? That probably happened so fast, too, right? All five guys touched it. That’s pretty cool.

But he’s trying to get the guys to pass the ball. And he said that was the hardest thing in the world to do, was to get these guys to work as a team. And that’s what a manager is. So I want to ask you this, Corey, because you manage a company where you recruit people to work for other companies.

I do. Trinity Employment. What kind of people do you recruit at Trinity Employment? Well, we have a group of our business that staffs primarily for the medical field. And most of the major medical facilities

in Oklahoma City and Tulsa, we staff for. And then most of the major hospitals as well. So have you ever found someone who’s super talented, but cantankerous, and you’ve thought to yourself, gosh, you know what? They’re really talented, but there’s no way

they’re going to fit in at that hospital. A lot of times. In fact, there are a lot of times when people will come in and they do really, really well in the interview, but you see their past history and you start asking questions and you’re like, oh boy. Oh, I don’t know.

Eight jobs in eight weeks, wow. Yeah, they’re so personable, though. So, see, I would ask you this. If somebody’s listening to the show today and they say, I started a concrete company because I freaking wanted to do concrete. Because I love concrete.

And now I spend all my day managing people. I can’t stand managing people. I just want to get to a place in my life where I will do concrete. Should they be self-employed? No. Get a job and go do concrete.

My gosh. Crazy. Boom. Boom. Boom. I see so many owners who say, I want to focus on my vision.

I don’t want to spend all my time managing people. But see, that’s what business is. That’s all it is. That’s all it is. That’s all it is. Well, I mean, there’s all the 13 steps we teach you in our in-person workshops.

But once you have those steps up, nothing works unless your people do. Bingo. We put them in orbit, and then you have to manage them. When we come back, I want Z to talk about the holiday party. The part of the party where he asks people to stand up based upon their seniority. Their ability to stand up at that point.

If you work for me… Level of inebriation at the end of it. If you can feel your face, stand up. All right. No, but seriously, before we go to the break, I want to tell you about a company, Chap, a proud sponsor.

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Watch their website. These guys, will, will, w-i-l-l-dash-con.com. These guys are general contractors, commercial builders. They’re gonna get you a realistic budget within three days, and their goal is to exceed the owner’s expectations from start to finish.

Call them today, 918-682-5511. 918-682-5511. Will-Con.com. What? And back to a show that’s cooler than the other side of the pillow.

It’s the Thrive Time Business Coach Show. It’s the Thrive Time Show on your radio. Get it on the bracket so the pockets down won’t roll. Teach you the moves to make your business grow. Provide you the fuel to make you want to go. Whether you’re a startup or a big time baller,

we’ll teach you the system to increase your dollars. Google Optimize, sales multipliers, we cite it all so it never lies. Pitch yourself, it’s a truth, not a fable. My name is Clark, but I ain’t Clark Gable. Next to me is Zee, he owns Stables.

And you can too if you unplug the cable. Greetings Thrive Nation. We’re now in the top of all of the podcasts in the world. In the world? In the world. How many is that?

Wall Street Journal estimates there’s 530,000 podcasts. Wow. With the new ones coming on every day. Wow. And we’re consistently in that top 50 now and in the business section We’re always in that top 10 right there. We’re a little under Dave Ramsey. We’re ahead of Tony Robbins

We’re ahead of Tim Ferriss We’re in that space with Gary Vaynerchuk and what’s happening is is people from all over the world We’re are are finding our show and they’re saying what in the world would like you guys? What in the world would make you guys want to take the time needed, Z, to do this show. Why are you doing this show? Why?

Because we love people and we want to see people successful. We want to see people have time, freedom, and make money. But I’ve got a question. Yes. Have we cracked the Uncrackable? Have we had a download in North Korea yet?

That’s what I want to know. That’s what I want to know. That’s impressive. I can say I don’t know, but, Chuck, can you grab the book that’s on my desk real quick? I’ve been doing some research. I’m trying to work our way into the North Korean peninsula, trying to get into that

culture. Because I know we’ve cracked South Korea. So what I’ve been doing is I’ve actually been studying our American diplomat, the best we’ve got, the only person who’s allowed into North Korea. Oh yeah, he’s part of the show. Oh my gosh, it’s a nice tie-in.

Right there. There it is. I’m reading Dennis Rodman’s book right now, Bad As I Want To Be. And I can tell you this, because first you read the Chicago Bulls book Then what do you read after that you read bad as I want to be sure and so I feel like if I if we learn enough if we do enough shows about

You know Dennis Rodman. I think the North Korean dictator will follow the the the the colonel The couple follow the trail back to the source Ah the next thing you know we’re gonna get a call so we’re gonna use Dennis right to get to the North Koreans I like it and we’re gonna get a call and it’s just going to be some guy who’s calling and he’s like, I’m calling on behalf of Supreme Leader Trump. Well he’s some guy, isn’t that some young…

Young some guy. I’ll get a call from some young guy. We would like to have Kim Jong Un on your show, you know, and then it’ll be awesome. It’ll be Kim Jong Un, we’ll get Dennis Rodman, it’s going to be awesome. It’ll be awesome. Now Zee, speaking of effective manager, would you consider the leader of North Korea an

effective manager? Would you consider him to be… From what I know? No, this is from what I know no You asked me that yes me that night’s gonna hear this podcast be like, okay, there we go He’s on the list. I’m on the list now Phil Jackson’s talking now about pride

Okay, talk about managing teammates managing isn’t because remember he managed Michael Jordan Michael Jordan was already on the Bulls Scotty Pippen was already there. They weren’t winning Kobe Bryant Shaquille O’Neal were already on the team, they weren’t winning. So Marshall, I’m going to start with you on this. I’m going to have you break down this notable quotable from page 137 of 11 Rings by Phil Jackson. He writes here, one of the first things he noticed about the players, particularly the

younger ones, was that they were trapped in a restrictive mindset that made it difficult for them to adopt and adapt to their new reality. Many of these guys were the main dude on their college teams, but now they’re in the NBA. There were a lot of players that were faster, quicker, and stronger. So they had to figure out a new way to compete and to be successful. The thing that got them here was not going to get them to the next level.

He explains this over and over to point out to a guy, like, hey, I love that you’re the top scoring guy ever in the history of North Carolina. That’s exciting to me. Alabama. I love that you played at Wake Forest and you were the guy. I love that, that’s so good.

But here, what I want you to do is, all I want you to do is rebound. And then that’s it. That’s it. And then by the way, I know you used to be able to call plays in high school, you’d come down the court and you’d yell, stack it! Stack it!

You run a play. So you see this move over and over and over again. Right. Among great leaders. And so this exact move in Phil Jackson being able to do this with all of his NBA players is the exact same thing that John Wooden did at UCLA.

Talk about it! Talk about it! So every single year, the first thing that John Wooden would do with all of his new players and his team at UCLA was he taught his players on how to put on their socks and how to tie their shoes. How do you put on socks?

Next to the triangle. Everybody was like, why are we doing this? Why? I’ve been doing this my entire career. But he said, we’re not going to be plagued by foot injuries and blisters, and if we can’t do this correctly, and if you don’t lace up your shoes, then you’re not going to pass

the ball crisply. You’re not going to shoot the ball correctly. You’re not going to do the appropriate things. And so it was a very humbling experience. And Phil Jackson mastered that, John Wooden mastered that, and you too, as a business owner, also will need to master the small things if you’re willing to be successful

in the big picture. Ooh, wow. That was a rant. Jumping in high. You know, I have not taught my doctors how to put on socks or tie their shoes yet. I feel really behind.

You have to teach them how to put on their glasses. This is the part of the book that was like a page turner for me. I’m just reading through this and I’m going, oh yeah, this is good. Because remember, Dennis Rodman played in the NBA for the Spurs for our dear friend and business partner, David Robinson. And he played on the team of the Spurs.

Now this is what Dennis would do. He would often take his shoes off during the game to protest that he was not being Treated kindly he felt like it was his job to get all of the rebounds because he felt like David Robinson Was being lazy, so this is a put up on the big screen show put this on the show notes here Haha, here’s Dennis Rodman on the big screen taking his shoes off during the game Refusing to go back in because he claimed that he felt like he was carrying David Robinson and playing defense and grabbing

rebounds because David didn’t want to. He said that David Robinson was afraid of Hakeem Olajuwon. During team huddles, he would just sit there with his green hair and refuse to go into the game. And so, he was known as a culture killer. So Phil Jackson gets a call from Dennis’ agent, and the agent says, we’d like to explore

the possibility of Dennis playing with the Bulls. Now this is what Phil Jackson says. He says, and I know this is how ZU had processed this. He says, I was less troubled by Dennis’s eccentricities than I was by his selfish style of play. I heard from coaches who worked with him that he was so fixated on rebounding that he was reluctant to help teammates on defense. I also questioned whether he could work with

Michael and Scottie who resented him for the brutal way he had manhandled them when we played against the Bulls. But scout Jim Stack thought we might lose Rodman if we didn’t act quickly. So Jerry decided to give him a serious look. He’s interviewing with Dennis Rodman. He’s trying to ask Dennis, like, Dennis, where did things get weird with the Spurs? And he said, well, it started when I invited Madonna, who I was dating at the time, to

visit the locker room after the game. And the media frenzy really upset the front office. I also expressed my concern over my… he explains here, he says, I expressed my concern that I had to help out David Robinson who was afraid of Hakeem Olajuwon. So he told David Robinson, NBA Hall of Fame player, like, you’re afraid of Hakeem Olajuwon. And he also brought in Madonna into the locker room. You could

see how this could create problems for the team. When we come back, I want to talk about how to manage a very difficult personality. Because Z, I am sure you have never in your history as a business owner, entrepreneur, ever had to manage a difficult person. I’m sure that everybody on your team is always the easiest to manage, and you’ve never had to put up with a certain person or personality because they delivered a lot of production.

Now, Chep, if you’re out there and you say, my Ford Automotive, my Ford Automobile, it needs to be fixed. I’ve got battery issues, fleet service transmission, heat and air systems that need to be fixed. Chep, who should they call? A little people named RC Auto Specialists. You can check them out at rcautospecialists.com.

RCautospecialists.com or call them today, 918-872-8115. 918-872-8115. That’s RCAutoSpecialist. Ask for my main man, Roy, at RCAutoSpecialist.com. Stay tuned. Attend the world’s best business workshop led by America’s number one business coach

for free by subscribing on iTunes and leaving us an objective review. Claim your tickets by emailing us proof that you did it and your contact information to info at thrive timeshow.com all right Thrive Nation, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show on your radio. We’re talking about how Phil Jackson led the Chicago Bulls to six NBA championships how Phil Jackson led the Los Angeles Lakers to five NBA championships and how you can lead your business to success by managing

difficult people. So we’re talking that Phil Jackson in his book, 11 Rings, on page 152, he writes, when he’s talking about bringing on Dennis Rodman onto the team, this is what he says to Dennis. He says, Dennis, what did you think

about your experience playing with the Spurs? Dennis says, half the Spurs had their balls locked up in the freezer every time they left the house. Basketballs. So he says, he kind of giggles, he’s like, okay. And he says, so do you think you can master the triangle offense, I asked.

And Dennis says, oh yeah, there’s no problem for me. The triangle’s about finding Michael Jordan and getting him the ball. Phil replies, that’s a good start. Then we got serious. Dennis, if you think you’re up for this job, I’m going to sign off on this deal, but we can’t screw it up. We’re in a position to win another championship. We re

there. Okay. After that, at the native american ar Show me the necklace he’d Ponca from Oklahoma. Then together for a quiet for was a man of few words, b

I felt reassured that he for us. We connected on a after that a bond of the day, Jerry and I had a follow-up meeting with Dennis to go over the team’s rules about attendance, punctuality, and other issues. It was a short list.

After I finished reading it, Dennis said, you won’t have any problem with me. You’ll be getting an NBA championship. Most of the players developed a fondness for Dennis right away. They soon realized that all of his wild offstage theatrics, the nose rings, the tattoos, the late night parties, and gay bars were all part of an act he’d created with the help of Madonna to get attention.

Underneath he was just a quiet boy from Dallas with a generous heart who worked hard, played hard and would do anything to win. Somewhere in the middle of training camp I realized that Dennis was going to bring a new dimension to our team that I hadn’t anticipated. Not only was he a magician on the boards, that’s rebounding, but he was also a smart, mesmerizing defender who could guard anyone, even Shaquille O’Neal.

During those times, and he goes on to explain, that basically during the time that Dennis was on the team, he never showed up to practice on time consistently. And he had a rule. He said you have to have no piercings, no jewelry on when you come to practice and you have to have your shoes on. So he said Dennis would come to practice with all the jewelry on, but would have his shoes on. Or he would come to practice without wearing socks or shoes, but have the jewelry off.

And he would do this, and he didn’t mind the fines. What he wanted was the fines because he wanted your attention. Now Dennis’ father, when Dennis was three, his father, and Dennis says he remembers it, his father said, that’s it, I’m leaving. And he never came back. And so Dennis has like crazy issues with being left, abandonment, he really struggles with that.

He wants attention. He also has contemplated killing himself. They actually found him outside of the Pistons Arena with a loaded weapon, a loaded rifle. And he just, he’s like very alone in the world and he feels like no one understands him. And he wasn’t even trying to play in the NBA. He actually got arrested at the mall for stealing watches when he was 21.

And his sister said, you should go try out for the basketball team, you’re 6’8”. Because he was like 6’2″, previously. So he tries out for a small school and ends up dominating. And the coach points out… Southeastern state here in Oklahoma. Well the coach pointed out to him…

I think, wasn’t it? Well, first it was a small school in Texas, then he went to Southeastern. And the coach pointed out, Dennis, you’ve got a lot of anxiety problems. You’ve got a lot of anger issues. He goes, what I want you to do is take that and bring it to the weight room. So Dennis would oftentimes, after the game, come back to the United Center in lift weights

by himself until 3 in the morning, 4 in the morning, until he would pass out and get up for 7am. And he said that’s the only time that he felt like he connected, like he had a place in the world, was when he was working out by himself. Wow. Because he said these demons wouldn’t stop talking to him.

So this is like, I mean Dennis Rodman really had some psychological issues, but yet he’s on the team. So hopefully you don’t have a Dennis Rodman in your office, but I can say this. I’ve managed personalities like this where you have that salesperson and they have all sorts of anxiety issues and all sorts of life issues, but man, they can turn it on. They’re polarizing.

They’re up or down, but Z, when they’re up, they’re up. Sometimes you want a big producer like that and you need them. Talk to me about how you manage a difficult personality in your businesses. Yeah, I had a guy that was a rock star. He could get out there and hustle and get cars and get dealers in. His problem were a little bit different, some different addictions.

I’ll just leave it like that. It’s a constant management. It’s a constant… Sometimes the success, sometimes payday was worse than not. Sometimes everybody in his pocket was, you know, is he going to be back? Is he going to be back? We had an awards trip that we took a bunch of people to Vegas.

We thought, we can’t take him. We’re not sure we’re ever going to see him again. There’s something about construction workers, too. They’re really hardworking construction guys. Boy, those guys have some weird problems. We’d go out of town and do jobs.

I’d literally get up at 4 in the morning to start rounding everybody up at the hotel. And one time, found a guy laying half in his hotel room, half out of his hotel room, sleeping inside a pizza box. I want to explain to all the listeners out there, this, what you’re describing, these situations,

our top sales guy at DJ Connection, we stayed at the nice hotel that has the big sphere on top of it in downtown Dallas, that big Hyatt. Yep. And I’m like, where is this guy? Where is he?

We’re looking around, I find he is nude, except for his tighty whities, clinging to a Buddha fountain in downtown Dallas after like 10 Long Island iced teas, and he’s yelling, get me down! I swear to you, that happened. I woke up, we went to one bridal show in Kansas City and our top sales guy woke up in a bush, completely intoxicated while wearing his suit.

And he tried to play it off like he’s good and he has vomit all over himself. And I’m like, get out of here. So that happens all the time. Unfortunately, this is, I mean, you’re managing people. And so you’re right, you’re managing people. And you know what?

Here’s the thing about it is, Clay, because people are listening out there going, okay, so what do I do? Okay, I know the stories, I know the thing, I’ve got… You have to adjust. Well, you’ve got to adjust, but then also I want to give you something too. You’re not an NBA team, you’re not trying to win the finals, and so there are other

great people out there, and you’re going to put up with that as long as you’re going to put up with it. That’s why you can never stop interviewing. Right. Ever. But as long as you can put up with it, you put up with it because they’re producing.

So it’s back on you. This is what Phil Jackson did. Apparently every time that he would stand up as a coach, you know coaches stand up, Dennis would think he’s being pulled out of the game and would freak out. So he would like look at the sidelines because he thought that the coach was trying to abandon him.

Oh wow. So anytime that he would stand up he’s like, he’s going to pull me out of the game. I’m done. So this is what he says. He says on page 154, that year I stopped standing and pacing the sidelines during games because I noticed that whenever I got agitated, Dennis would become hyperactive.

And if I argued with the ref, it would only give him license to do the same. So I decided to be as quiet and restrained as possible. I didn’t want to set Dennis off because once he got agitated, there was no telling what he might do. Because he, like, he headbutted a ref during a game. Oh yeah, he’s crazy.

He kicked a cameraman in the balls twice. He kicks the cameraman in the balls and then everyone’s like, oh my gosh, you just kick him in the balls and the guy’s going, and he does it again just to prove a point. He’s like, he headbutts players. He used to stick his thumb in the butts of the opposing players during the games consistently. He would untie the shoes of the opposing players.

He actually came to the games wearing gear he wore from his night at the gay bar. He would insinuate to other players that he wanted to be with them in a horizontal way. Just getting in their head. He would tell their teammates that he had an attraction for them. He would do whatever he had to do to mess with your head because he’s like, what, 6’7 maybe?

He’s guarding Shaquille O’Neal, 7′ tall. And so they put up with that guy for three years and they won championships. If you read this book, he goes up and down. Marshall, how do you see us deal with these personalities, like an elephant in the room or the different businesses? How do you see that play out?

Because there are a lot of difficult personalities. We have a great team at Elephant in the Room now, but months ago, years ago, how do you see that happening? Well, exactly like Dr. Zellner was saying, you put up with it as long as you want to or have to. Or can.

Or can. And so the thing is, you shouldn’t be complaining about that person if you’re not working towards a solution. Oh, come on. Exactly. And so if you’re not doing the group interview, you shouldn’t complain about that person because

that person is typically that person that’s producing. He’s getting all the rebounds. He’s the one closing the sales. And so that’s why you’re keeping him around is because your business is built upon that. And so what you have to do is you have to start doing the system that will allow you to move on whenever you make that decision that you’ve put up with it long enough, or

the positives outweigh the negatives. See, we were talking about a hyperactive Dennis Rodman, and on tomorrow’s show, what we’re doing, see, the Thrive Nation has decided to become very hyperactive today. You can just sense the energy. I can. We have a lot of questions.

A lot of emails coming in hot. So I think on tomorrow’s show, I think we’re breaking down like six listener questions on tomorrow’s show. Oh, I love it. It’s a lot of listener questions. If you want your question to be answered, email us to info at thrive timeshow.com.

If you want to grow your business, if you say, you know what, I’m tired of just barely making. If you want to take your business to the next level, go to Thrivetimeshow.com because you’re going to find the podcasts on Thrivetimeshow.com. You’re going to find the business coaching on Thrivetimeshow.com. You’re going to find the conferences at Thrivetimeshow.com.

What’s that website you’re talking about? You can book your conference tickets at Thrivetimeshow.com. My name is Clay Clark. I’m a business coach. That’s Dr. Z. That’s Eric Chup.

That’s Marshall Morris. And without any further ado, let’s end this show with a three two and a one and a boom here. We go three two one Play Clark is here somewhere. Where’s my buddy play? Play is the greatest I met his goats today. I met his dogs. I met his chickens. I saw his compound He’s like the greatest marketer you’ve ever seen right his entire life Clay Clark his entire life is marketing. Okay Aaron Antis March 6th and 7th

March 6th and 7th guess who’s coming to Tulsa Russela. Santa Claus? No no that’s March March 6th and 7th we’re gonna be joined by Robert Kiyosaki Robert Kiyosaki best-selling author of Rich Dad Poor Dad possibly the best-selling or one of the best-selling business authors of all time and he’s going to be joined with Eric Trump. He’ll be joined by Eric Trump. We’ve got Eric Trump and Robert Kiyosaki in the same place. In the same place.

Aaron, why should everybody show up to hear Robert Kiyosaki? Well, you’ve got billions of dollars of business experience between those two. Not to mention many, many, many millions of books have been sold. Many, many millionaires have been made from the books that have been sold by Robert Kiyosaki. I happen to be one of them.

I learned from the man. He was the inspiration. That book was the inspiration for me to get the entrepreneurial spirit, as many other people. Now, since you won’t brag on yourself, I will. You’ve sold billions of dollars of houses, am I correct?

That is true. And the book that kick-started it all for you. Rich Dad Pornhub. The best-selling author of Rich Dad Pornhub, Robert Kiyosaki, the guy that kick-started your career, he’s going to be here. He’s going to be here. I’m pumped. And now Eric Trump, people don’t know this, but the Trump Organization has thousands of employees. There’s not 50 employees. The Trump Organization, again, most people don’t know this, but the Trump Organization has thousands of employees.

And while Donald J. Trump was the 45th president of these United States and soon to be the 47th president of these United States, he needed someone to run the companies for him. And so the man that runs the Trump organization for Donald J. Trump, as he was the 45th president of the United States and now the 47th president of the United States, is Eric Trump. So Eric Trump is here to talk about time management, promoting from within, marketing, branding, quality control, sales systems, workflow design, workflow mapping, how to build.

I mean, everything that you see, the Trump hotels, the Trump golf courses, all their products, the man who manages billions of dollars of real estate and thousands of employees is here to teach us how to do it. You are talking about one of the greatest brands on the planet from a business standpoint. I mean, who else has been able to create a brand like the Trump brand? I mean, look at it. And this is the man behind the business for the last,

pretty much since 2015. He’s been the man behind it. So you’re talking, we’re into nine, going into 10 years of him running it. And we get to tap into that knowledge. That’s going to be amazing. Now think about this for a second. Uh, you know, would you, would you buy a ticket just to see Robert Kiyosaki and Eric Trump? Of course you would. Of course you would.

But we’re also going to be joined by Sean Baker. This is the best-selling author, the guy who invented the carnivore diet. Dr. Sean Baker. He’s been on Joe Rogan multiple times. He’s going to be joining us. So you’ve got Robert Kiyosaki, the best-selling author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, Eric Trump,

Sean Baker. The lineup continues to grow. And this is how we do our tickets here at the Thrive Time Show. If you want to get a VIP ticket, you can absolutely do it. It’s $500 for a VIP ticket. We’ve always done it that way.

Now, if you want to take a general admission ticket, it’s $250 or whatever price you want to pay. And the reason why I do that and the reason why we do that is because we want to make our events affordable for everybody. I grew up without money. I totally understand what it’s like to be in a tight spot.

So if you want to attend, it’s $250 or whatever price you want to pay. That’s how I do it. And it’s $500 for a VIP ticket. Now, we only have limited seating here. The most people we’ve ever had in this building was for the Jim Brewer presentation.

Jim Brewer came here. The legendary comedian Jim Brewer came to Tulsa, and we had 419 people that were here. 419 people. And I thought to myself, there’s no more room. I felt kind of bad that a couple people had VIP seats

in the men’s restroom. Oh, no, I’m just kidding. So I thought, you know what, we should probably add on. So we’re adding on what we call the upper deck, or the top shelf. So the seats are very close to the presenters,

but we’re actually building right now. We’re adding on to the facility to make room to accommodate another 30 attendees or more. So again, if you want to get tickets for this event, all you have to do is go to thrivetimeshow.com. Go to thrivetimeshow.com.

When you go to thrivetimeshow.com, you’ll go there, you’ll request a ticket, boom. Or if you want to text me, if you want a little bit faster service, you say, I want you to call me right now. I just texted my number, it’s my cell phone number,

my personal cell phone number. We’ll keep that private between you, between you, me, everybody. We’ll keep that private. And anybody, don’t share that with anybody except for everybody.

That’s my private cell phone number. It’s 918-851-0102, 918-851-0102. 8 5 1 0 1 0 2 9 1 8 8 5 1 0 1 0 2 I know we have a lot of Spanish-speaking people that attend these conferences and so to be bilingually sensitive my cell phone number is 9 1 8 8 5 1 0 1 0 2. That’s not actually bilingual, that’s just saying one or a one. I think you’re attacking me. Now let’s talk about this. Now what kind of stuff

will you learn at the Thrive Time Show Workshop? So Aaron, you’ve been to many of these over the past seven, eight years. So let’s talk about it. I’ll tee up the thing and then you tell me what you’re going to learn here. OK? OK.

You’re going to learn marketing, marketing and branding. What are we going to learn about marketing and branding? Oh, yeah. We’re going to dive into, you know, so many people say, oh, you know, I got to get my brand known out there, like the Trump brand. Right. You want to get that brand out there.

It’s like, how do I actually make people know what my business is and make it a household name. You’re going to learn some intricacies of how you can do that. You’re going to learn sales. So many people struggle to sell something. This just in, your business will go to hell if you can’t sell. So we’re going to teach you sales. We’re going to teach you search engine optimization, how to come up top in the search engine results. We’re going to teach you how to manage people. Aaron, you have managed, no exaggeration, hundreds of people throughout your career and thousands

of contractors, and most people struggle with managing people. Why does everybody have to learn how to manage people? Well, because, first of all, you either have great people or you have people who suck. It can be a challenge. Learning how to work with a large group of people and get everybody pulling in the same direction can be a challenge. But if you have the right systems, you have the

right processes, and you’re really good at selecting great ones, and we have a process we teach about how to find great people. When you start with the people who have a great attitude, they’re teachable, they’re driven, all of those things, then you know you can get those people all pulling in the same direction. So we’re gonna teach you branding, marketing, sales, search engine optimization. We’re gonna teach you accounting. We’re going to teach

you personal finance, how to manage your finance. We’re going to teach you time management. How do you manage your time? How do you get more done during a typical day? How do you build an organization if you’re not organized? How do you do organization? How do you build an org chart? Everything that you need to know to start and grow a business will be taught during this two-day interactive business workshop. Now, let me tell you how the format is set up here.

And again, folks, this is a two-day interactive 15. Think about this, folks. It’s two days. Each day it starts at 7 AM, and it goes until 5 PM. So from 7 AM to 5 PM, two days. It’s a two-day interactive workshop.

The way we do it is we do a 30-minute teaching session, and then we break for 15 minutes for a question and answer session. So Aaron, what kind of great stuff happens during that 15-minute question and answer session after every teaching session.

I actually think it’s the best part about the workshops because here’s what happens. I’ve been to lots of these things over the years. I’ve paid many thousands of dollars to go to them and you go in there and they talk in vague generalities and they’re constantly upselling you for something trying to get you to buy this thing or that thing or this program or this membership and you don’t you leave not getting your very specific questions answered about your business or your employees or what you’re doing on your marketing.

And what’s awesome about this is we literally answer every single question that any person asks. And it’s very specific to what your business is. And what we do is we allow you as the attendee to write your questions on the whiteboard. And then we literally, as you mentioned, we answer every single question on the whiteboard. And then we take a 15 minute break to stretch.

And to make it entertaining when you’re stretching, this is a true story, when you get up and stretch you’ll be greeted by mariachis, there’s going to probably be alpaca here, llamas, helicopter rides, a coffee bar, a snow cone, I mean you had a crocodile one time. That was pretty interesting. You know, I should write that down. Sorry for that one guy that we lost. The crocodile, we duct taped its face. So that’s right, we duct taped.

It was a baby crocodile. And we duct taped. Yeah, duct tape around the mouth so it didn’t bite anybody. But it was really cool passing that thing around. And I should do that. I should do that.

We have a small petting zoo that will be assembled. It’s going to be great. And then you’re in the company of hundreds of entrepreneurs. So there’s not a lot of people in America today. In fact, there’s less than 10 million people today, according to US Debt Clock, that

identify as being self-employed. So if you have a country with 350 million people, that means you have less than 3% of our population that’s even self-employed. So you only have 3 out of every 100 people in America that are self-employed to begin with. And when Inc.

Magazine reports that 96% of businesses fail by default, by default you have a 1 out of 1,000 chance of succeeding in the game of business. But yet the average client that you and I work with, we can typically double the size of the company. No hyperbole, no exaggeration. I have thousands of testimonials to back this up.

We have thousands of testimonials to back it up. But when you work with a home builder, when I work with a business owner, we can typically double the size of the company within 24 months. And you say double? Yeah, there’s businesses that we have tripled. There’s businesses we’ve grown 8x.

There’s so many examples. You can see it thrivetimeshow.com. But again, this is the most interactive best business workshop on the planet. This is objectively the highest rated and most reviewed business workshop on the planet.

And then you add to that Robert Kiyosaki, the bestselling author of Rich Dad Poor Dad. You add to that Eric Trump, the man that runs the Trump Organization. You add to that Sean Baker. Now you might say, but Clay, is there more? I need more! Well, okay, Tom

Wheelwright is the wealth strategist for Robert Kiyosaki. So people say, Robert Kiyosaki, who’s his financial wealth advisor? Who’s the guy who manages, who’s the, who’s his wealth strategist? His wealth strategist, Tom Wheelwright, will be here. And you say, Clay, I still, I’m not gonna get a ticket unless you give me more! Okay, fine. We’re gonna serve you the same meal both days. True story. We cater to food and because I keep it simple, I literally bring him the same

food both days for lunch. It’s Ted Esconzito’s, an incredible Mexican restaurant. That’s going to happen. And Jill Donovan, our good friend, who is the founder of Rustic Cuff. She started that company in her home and now she sells millions of dollars of apparel and products. That’s rustic cuff.com. And someone says, I want more. This is not enough. Give me more. Okay. Um, I’m not gonna mention their names right now because I’m, because I’m working on it behind the scenes here, but we’ve got one guy who’s given me a verbal to be here. And this is a guy who’s one of the wealthiest people in Oklahoma.

And nobody really knows who he is because he’s built systems that are very utilitarian that offer a lot of value. He’s made a lot of money in the, it’s where you rent, it’s short term, it’s where you’re renting storage spaces. He’s a storage space guy. He owns the, what do you call that? The rental, the storage space? Storage units. This guy owns storage units, he owns railroad cars, he owns a lot of assets that make money on a daily basis, but they’re not like customer facing. Most people don’t know who owns the mini storage facility, or most people don’t know who owns

the warehouse that’s passively making money. Most people don’t know who owns the railroad cars. But this guy, he’s given me a verbal that he will be here. And we just continue to add more and more success stories. So if you’re out there today and you want to change your life, you want to give yourself an incredible gift, you want a life-changing experience, you want to learn how to start

and grow a company, go to Thrivetimeshow.com. Go there right now. Thrivetimeshow.com. Request a ticket for the two-day interactive event. Again, the day here is March 6th and 7th. March 6th and 7th. We just got confirmation. Robert Kiyosaki, best-selling author, rich dad, poor dad, he’ll be here. Eric Trump, the man who leads the Trump Organization. It’s going to be a blasty blast. There’s no upsells. Aaron, I could not be more excited about this event. I think it is incredible, and there’s somebody out there right now

you’re watching and you’re like but I already signed up for this incredible other program called Smoke Your Way to Thin. I think that’s gonna change your life. I promise you this will be ten times better than that. It’s like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking. Don’t do the Smoke Your Way to Thin conference. That is it. I’ve tried it. Don’t do it. Yeah, chain smoking is not a viable… I mean it is life-changing. It is life-changing. If you become a chain smoker,

it is life-changing. It’s not the best weight loss program, though. Right. Not really. So if you’re looking to have life-changing results in a way that won’t cause you to have a stoma, get your tickets at Thrivetimeshow.com. Again, that’s Aaron Antis. I’m Clay Clark reminding you and inviting you to come out to the two-day interactive Thrivetimeshow workshop right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I promise you it will be a life-changing

experience. We can’t wait to see you up right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma.