Rustic Cuff Founder Jill Donovan Shares Her Experiences on Oprah, What When Wrong and What Went Right

Audio Transcription

On today’s show, the founder of rustic cuff, Jill Donovan joins us to explain what happens when your Oprah appearance goes wrong. She also shares how she started rustic cuff and how she’s been able to create a product that is so loved by so many people that Carrie Underwood, Trisha Yearwood, Brittany Spears, and Oprah choose to wear these rustic cuffs. On today’s show, Jill Donovan also shares with us the power of what she calls the kindness effect and the power of irrational. Given all this and much, much more on two days edition of the thrive time show on both your radio and podcast download. Ladies and gentlemen, now have any further ado. My interview with the founder of Rustic Cuff, Jill, the thrill Donovan.

Some shows don’t need a celebrity in a writer to introduce the show, but this show dies to may eight kids co-created by two different women, 13 most time million dollar businesses. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the thrive time.

In my mind is about ready to explode as I introduce you to somebody who operates at a frequency that I share, if that makes any sense at all. There’s somebody who has the intensity, the audacity, the appreciation for failed attempts at humor that I deliver on a daily basis. Jill Donovan, the founder of Rustic cuff is here on the show with you. Jill, welcome onto the show. Clay, thank you for having me on this show. I have to ask you, because you shared the story and our listeners need to know, and this is going to come across probably like a reverse commercial for this show, but how did you first hear about the thrive time show and what are your friends think about it?

This is a great story. On spring break, my family went skiing in Whistler, Canada and I had just gotten a pair of airpods and I decided, I don’t know how, but I happened upon your podcast, sorry. And while it was your picture and and so I hit play. I don’t even remember exactly how that happened, but my finger just hit play and I said, what do I have to lose? And I had lost everybody and with skiing by myself and the mountains in whistler are so long that it literally took me about an hour to get down and halfway down I hear you saying that if you want to be successful that you cannot be at every one of your children’s birthday parties. And it was it. I stopped in my tracks, even skiing.

I want to make sure I clarify. I was just, I’m throwing out this idea of tradeoffs and I’m just pointing out that I see a lot of people who want to be an entrepreneur. Jill. They want to open the rustic cough. They want to be the next Jill Donovan. They want to be the next whatever that is, the next business, whatever version of success they have, they want to be the next big pastor, the next best. Uh, next, uh, biggest, uh, sprinkler installation system guy, Josh, they want to, but they are unwilling to make the trade offs. And so it is about trade offs. And with your given up, what a birthday party? Yes or something. You have to make a trade off, don’t you? Yeah.

Well then I thought I heard you say, but I think I was hearing things that you needed to give some of your children away.

Yeah, I don’t, I did. I don’t know that I, I you know that here is the deal. If I said that I want to just, I want to just slip myself, right?

No. So I found my, so I went back up the mountain

and kept listening to you could not turn you off like bad milk when you smell it. Yeah. Then you put it back in the fridge and you’re like, I gotta smell that again to make sure it was that bad. And then I said, I have to let my husband and one of our best friends smell this milk as well. And so I laid the phone down when I got up to the top of the mountain, laid the phone down and said, you guys are not going to believe what I just heard. And so I hit speaker, crazy crowded in there, hit speaker. And you said it again. You said if you want to be successful, you’re going to have to miss some really important things and, and then they, their mouth dropped open and I put the airpods back and went and skied down and listened to another episode.

He does what your friends say. We have live audio. What’s your friend said while skiing?

Yeah. Now we’re going to talk about your history today and we have, I’ve kind of rounded up my rowdy friends here with me. We have Josh with living water irrigation here. We have west Carter about there. West is going to come in into the booth here. West. His law firm represents TD Jakes and they represented Joel O’Steen and Joyce Meyers and big people like you. You’re that kind of thing. Big, big people. So West Carter, that’s Jill Donovan. Jill Donovan, who is Carter here. And so I want to start with your story here. How did rustic cuff start and when did you start to book those big time celebrities like Carrie Underwood and Oprah and people out there wearing your rustic cuffs?

Well, it started, it’s kind of a long story. Okay. I’m going to try to tell this and then shorter period of time. Okay. It started when I was 10 years old, nine years old, and I wanted to be an Olympic gymnast. I wanted to be a Nadia Comaneci. Do you remember her? You’re not old enough. No.

Nobody. You, you, you don’t look old enough. Okay. Okay. You’re lying. This is a false story. You’re very kind. You’re your grandmother told you about [inaudible]. You didn’t even know Jill Donovanturned 22 yesterday. Actually, by the way, it’s February 24th so

I want it to be like her. I wanted to be like Mary Lou Retton. You Know Mary? I do. Yup. There you go. And I worked so hard and my dream was to go to the Olympics. I had that dream in front of me and I was going to do it until the day that Eric, my gymnastics coach pulled me aside and said, you got to give up the dream. Go killing the dream. What was wrong? I couldn’t do the right side splits. Oh, I had that same problem just yesterday. I said I cannot do the right side. Was like, you shouldn’t do it will change your life. Okay. And I said, Eric pushed me down all the way and I’ll get this split. And so I actually went home and decided to give up that dream because I think somewhere deep inside of me, I knew that it was not going to be what my life’s calling was.

So you lost that dream and your attorney? Well, from that time on, I decided that every year I would start a new hobby until I found the passion. And so from 10 years old, all the way up until now, every year I’ve started a new hobby. Law School was one of them. A tap, dancing, ice skating, harmonica playing, you name it, whatever your favorite hobby is. I tried it along the way and law school turned into four years. And uh, for me, because I went part time and then, um, I loved doing it, but it was not my passion. It wasn’t the thing I knew I was called to do. And I felt like the thing I could have been called to do was to, um, had something to do with TV. I didn’t know, but I used to watch Oprah and I thought I got to get to the Oprah show just to find the Oprah show and every day called to get tickets to the Oprah show, not, I didn’t want to be on it.

I just wanted to be in the audience just so I could observe. That’s what I wanted. And when I tried that week of trying, turned into a month of trying to turn into four years of calling to get tickets, that’s the kind of persistence I’m talking about for years. I missed so many of my kids’ birthday parties just to call really maybe one and never got through. And then I said, what would clay Clark do? Clay would find the backdoor. That is true. There was a back door and I got on her website and the very first thing I saw when I pulled it up, it said, do you want to be on the show? There it is. Boom. And I said, yes, I want to be on the show. And I did not matter what she was looking for, I was going to make it fit. And the very first thing she was looking for was, are you a re gifter? If so, tell us your stories. And I grew up in a family of [inaudible] gifters, which you know, we gifting is, you’re actually, um, I come from a long line of free gifters and I’m just kidding.

So my mom had a closet full of gifts where you would normally have your linens and towels. And so every year she made me go to that closet instead of going to Kmart, target what you name it. And I said, mom, I will never do this like you have done for me. I’m going to the store. When I get out on my own, I’m going to go to the store like normal people do. And then when I got my own closet, when I graduated from college, I had the most amazing re-gifting closet you’ve ever seen. And so heard of accoutrements could be found inside this fine giraffe purses you’d find monogram things I used to, I loved monogram things. J F r were my initials. And so then I’ve made it a game. When you gave me something that had my initials on it, I put it in the closet and then I would look for friends with the same initials. Really. Oh, I loved when I found somebody with the name of Jill Donovan or the same initials that I had. I would always say, if you will stay my friend for just until after your birthday, you’re going to get the best gift ever.

But it’s great. And so Oprah was now looking for me. She was looking for me and I wrote her, didn’t tell anybody I was, I was working as an attorney at the time, making really good use of my time. And I shut the door and I sat and I wrote Oprah, three stories about how I had gotten caught re gifting. Just funny things that had happened to me, giving gifts to people. And then, you know, leaving the name, the name of who gave it to you on the gift. And within two hours my assistant called me and she said, Jill, Maria from the Oprah show is on the phone, get out of here. And I had not even left my office to even tell anybody that I had written the letter. So I knew it was authentic and picked up the phone and I said, Hello Maria.

And she said, Hello Jill Donovan we just received your letter. We loved it so much. We want to fly to Tulsa tomorrow to film you and your gift closet for a show we’re doing about etiquette and is it proper to re gift and other things like that. And I said, okay. And I went home and looked in my closet and it was very sad because there were not many things in there. So I went across to Utica square and bought as many things as I could to fill up the closet knowing I had no money and that I would take it all back the next day. Got It. So they flew out, they interviewed me, it was very funny and she, it was just this lighthearted thing and she said, thank you so much, we’ll be in touch. And she didn’t say anything about coming to the show. The next day she called me and she said the producers saw the clip that we filmed. They loved it so much. We want to fly you and your husband out to sit in the front row of the show, uh, tomorrow. And then, um, and, and they’ll air the piece in Oprah. We’ll just say thank you, Joe for being here. And I thought that’s way more than I ever had dreamed.

So you at this point, mentally are saying to yourself, this is a good deal. It’s gonna, it’s gonna happen. I’m gonna meet Oprah, I’m going to meet it. When you’re, when you go by just the first name, you know, Oprah, you know you’ve made it so you know you’re going to be on the, what do you envision the appearance to be like at this point? If you can remember back, what did you think it was going to be like?

It was happening so fast that I don’t even know. You know, you think it’s going to be so big and then you get to the show and there’s 300 people there and it’s this, it’s so much smaller. It, you didn’t even care because they, I got there and they did my makeup. I had a new outfit. It was, it was like the music was playing and it was, I can’t even describe it. It was way more happens so fast. It was way more than had ever expected. Um, they, they picked me up in a limo and they, they take great, great care of you. You go to the show and she sat me down, uh, on the front row and the Oprah, no, Maria, Maria had not seen Oprah yet and Maria said Maria is such a cool experience. I was actually ready to put my notice in at the firm and I didn’t even know what I was going to be doing,

putting in my notice. I’m done here cause I have gotten him, I’ve been on Oprah talking to Marie on the front row,

something happening, you know, you just know. Yeah. And right before the show started, before upper came out, Maria came over to me on the front row and she said, Jill, there’s been a change. There have been a change of plans, a change.

I have audio if I can cue it up. Audio of what you were thinking in your mind at the inner dialogue when you heard about the change and it just, just kind of worked with the, I, I believe this is actual microphone audio of, of what you were thinking when you found that there was a change in plans. Here we go.

[inaudible]

like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking. I took the wrong weight to quit drinking. Like I picked the wrong week to quit. I’m Huh?

I mean, were you, were you worried about it or are you [inaudible] about it was, what were you thinking when you found out they’re going to switch it up? You’ll touch your [inaudible]

oh, I, I said I almost, I can’t say what, what I was thinking. Oh No, I can’t say, yeah, this is pet God. This isn’t a live show. And you can edit that out. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, I just looked at her and didn’t know whether to smile or to be, get ready to be so disappointed. And she said, you’re going to be sitting up on the couch with Oprah.

Oh Wow. Oh Harry Carey’s excited about that. Brought back the memories of Harry Carey had this [inaudible] Chicago based story. Yeah.

He might’ve been in the audience as well. And so I went and sat on the couch and she said, Jill Donovan now instead of just saying thank you, you get to tell three stories, three story, your three stories you wrote in a, you wrote to us about, you can tell those stories. Okay. And I said, perfect. And I sat down, they aired the cla. Oprah sits down next to me and it’s so clay. I mean, it’s just, you know, when something happens so fast and it just, you can’t, it’s almost like a dream.

Tell me about the glow of the, Oh, when you’re looking at Oprah, I mean, talk to me a bit. Is it like an aura? I mean, until she levitate, was she, did she levitate in, did she?

Oddly enough, we were levitating together. Oh Wow. And she sat down and looked at me and smiled. And the only thing she said, oh, great shoes, great shoes. Since you said great shoes. And I said, [inaudible] say a compliment. I interpreted the great shoes to mean, do you want to have lunch with me after the show? That’s what you heard. I did hear that. It’s a shame because then I, after she said, great shoes, I said yes, pick me up at the hotel at three and the etiquette experts were on the other couch. Got It. They looked over at me and they were from Canada. Oh, don’t you know. Oh, they said to me the same thing. They mouth, love your shoes. I love your shoes. I don’t trip yarn. And before I know it, before I knew it, the clip started to air three, two, one and, and I’m like, that’s so exciting.

But, but I who nobody told me my hair is, was it had like tiger stripes in it back then. Oh Wow. And I know it’s funny, the things that we focus on. And they aired the clip and it was funny. People were laughing and Oprah looked at me and she said, well, Jill, what do you think about what you just watched now that you’ve been shown to the whole world, you’ve been outed. And I said, well, Oprah, she said, hold on a second, let’s go ask our etiquette experts with they think, no, I had not googled Canadian rules on re gifting, but I had googled the American rolls and

this Justin Canadians haven’t googled capitalism. We have multiple Canadians that came to the business conferences and they were shocked that in America we actually are pro capitalism. It’s amazing up there. By the way, if you’re, if you’re listening right now from Canada, you are welcome for the use of our military for free. Back to you, Jill Kay. Okay, so that was the, now I lost my train. I’m so sorry. I just want to harass our Canadian friends up there because they keep trying to send us like Justin Bieber and Drake and their teams, you know, and they’d taken our championships. So you’re yes, on the couch. The they, they switch to the, these experts, Canadians, Canadians,

Canadians. But they looked it over and they smiled at me and I thought, these are, these are girls that liked my shoes. I think we’re good friends already. Surely they will be kind. And they looked at me with a smile and then looked at Oprah and looked at the audience and they said, well, I hope, or we think what Jill is doing is just hacky and it’s rude. She needs to take that closet and give it to good will. And I was like, not before I take it back to you to go square at first. Oh. And S. And she said, both of them stared at me with a smile. Like if you’re going to say something like that, do you humiliate me or to embarrass me, frown. So I see it coming. Aw. And I started to get this feeling inside of me towards, towards them and all of Canada that, can I tell this funny?

Yeah. I just real quick, I’m taking some moment just to Marin and on what’s happening here. Because picture in your mind what you’d be saying to Canadians who’ve just ripped you on TV and then West Carter’s preparing his hot questions. Josh preparing his hot questions.

We’re almost ready. Chill. All right, we’re back. Okay. We’re back.

We went back to the back door. Them.

Tears are willing up in my eyes and all I want to do is defend myself. And having been an attorney, I thought I can, I got this and nothing really would come out clearly. And I had tears in my eyes. I knew if I blinked, I would start crying. So now I look like very big bug eyes. Ah, 15 minutes of this went on. I never got to tell a single story. And before I knew it,

it was all over. And then this is the music Oprah cued up to wrap up the show. Totally clips with the heart and it just cute it up. Okay. So now, uh, okay, Josh, you’ve never been on Oprah. I haven’t been on Oprah. I have not. I have not. Oprah. Oprah is, people have let me know. You know, I don’t qualify yet, but I, I am a hoarder. I’m a re gift or I’m a bad person. I’m going to get on that show for all those things. So Josh, what questions do you have for, for Jill? Uh, and about her Oprah experience before, before we move on into how she started rustic cuff. So Jill, uh, and I think it’s applicable for a lot of people out there and just that 1% mentality of, of you reaching out and being persistent. So in that moment, obviously that’s devastating and not how you wanted to play.

I, but maybe we could go back to the start of it where you just chose to keep going until you got to over years. Yeah. I never, I did not want to finish that when I called my hobby of just getting tickets to the show until it had some sort of closure. Every other hobby I did, whether it was tap dancing, I would have a recital at the end of the year and everything. I did this Oprah, this quest to just get tickets to the show where I first just wanted to do it. When they kept saying, no, we don’t have any tickets, then I, it made me even more persistent and I was not going to stop. I should’ve realized earlier that there was a backdoor. Uh, I don’t know why it took me four years, but yeah, I wasn’t gonna stop. There was nothing that was gonna stop me unless she closed, unless she ended the show.

No, I a west, I want to, I just, I’m gonna kick her out here just for a second here. Cause we have west Carter here and at any moment he could sue us. I mean, he’s a great attorney. He works with some of the bigger personalities, any moment. I mean West, a lot of times we’ll end conversations by saying, clay, I’ll see you later. I mean, you know what I mean? It’s just like there’s that fear that, that it’s a fear. No, I love West. He’s a great attorney, works with the winters and King and West. Your Law Firm. Could you share with the listeners about some of the big clients that your law firm has had the pleasure of representing over the years?

Sure. I mean, we’ve been around for a long time, so right before I was at the firm, we’ve been around for about 30 years now. So, um, when you look at 27, right? Yeah. Good. Yeah, a little older than Jill. Um, and so bishop Jakes in the Potter’s house had been a long time client a, you ready? Get ready. Joyce Meyer. Um, more recently we’ve worked uh, with Craig Rochelle at life church was an amazing church here, founded in Oklahoma, but expanding rapidly now. Um, so we’ve been very fortunate to work with a lot of people in the church industry. A lot of Christian, uh, sports players done some work back in the day with Dion and

John Sanders. Yeah. And come on John Alexander the year after he run the rushing title. See, this is the deal for him. The rustic cough. If you Google search rustic cough in the word celebrities. And by the way, if you’re, if you care about America and you have a little bit of energy left to care about the Canadians up there, who we protect for free with our military, make sure that you go check out rustic cuff. I should check them. Google search rustic cuffs. Celebrities. Jill Donovan works with a lot if she’s around a lot of these celebrity people west, you’re around a lot of these celebrity people. Do you ever get nervous with before you ask Jill your question? I mean, every year we’ve got to get nervous where you go. That’s chill. Todd is,

I’ve never, I’ve never gotten starstruck. There’s still that. Well, there was one time when I was a little kid, I got starstruck. I grew up in Florida and ran into Hawk Hogan in a toys r us t two. I grew up in Florida. That is where I first saw him. How interesting. Wow. Um, but since then, uh, just I guess from working around people realizing we’re all just humans trying to get through life and be happy that uh, even the stars usually are pretty down to earth for the most part. I don’t, I don’t, I, if this man were talking to me, I don’t think I could do anything nervous. He was rocking the yellow roadster. Really? That was pretty cool. Especially when you’re like five, you know, here’s seven foot haul coke, brother brothers, brother. Oh my gosh. I love Hoe Cogan I wish that was an audio book.

All right, so what question do you have for Jill about her Oprah experience? Well, I think one of the things that maybe not quite on Oprah, but this struck me is leaving your profession, you know? Okay. This was the catalyst. This was the catalyst. So I had not left it, but when I left the show and came back and emptied the whole closet out to get everything back over to the stores, empty the closet out, I decided to never open that closet again. Ever. Never, unless God chose to open it up and I would fill it back with something I was not going to use. Still live at that house. We just moved. I have a funny story for you. I did not go upstairs at all at a house we owned recently cause I didn’t like it. I’m like that. I’m like this room, I can’t have closure here. I can not go in this room to get there. I know I kept having different rooms in the house stuff, so I’m like, I didn’t like it.

I have, I guess the labels have to be out. I don’t do well. Andrew knows this. I removed doors. I don’t do doors except from the bathrooms. I don’t like

sh love the drawers. I don’t do drawers. I just do shelves [inaudible] and sights. It’s a psychological problem. It’s great for retail though. That is great. Yes. You know what I mean? So I just, anyway, but that’s a, that’s a bizarre place in there.

I want to ask this though. So it’s great segue here. We’re going from Oprah, a unintentionally being mocked by the Canadians, the Bryan Adams fans, the Molson ice fans, the hockey fans, the Bieber fans, the Landis Morissette fans, the mounties, all the, all the mounties are mocking you. How do you go from there to getting Oprah to actually wearing your product as, I believe it happened, the rustic cuff on the cover of Oprah magazine. How do you go? I mean, that is a big jump. How do you,

so at the time I was also teaching at the, uh, I was an adjunct law professor at the University of Tulsa, which was closer to what I felt like my passion it. And so when

I came home from the show, I decided I’m going to take a sabbatical at the young age of 22. Really more like 39 38 I’m going to take, I get my years mixed up, I’m going to take a sabbatical from, from teaching and I’m just going to stay at home.

Do they pay you? Is this a paid granted leave just for the listeners out there who aren’t familiar with this concept of Sabbatical?

Yes. No, no. There was no pay in unpaid vacation. Yes, no pay involved in that. Okay. And so I said that’s it. I’m not doing any more hobbies. Cause if hobbies got me on the stage of the Oprah Winfrey show embarrassed in front of, and it aired three weeks later and it aired three times that year, come on, 20 million people each time. And I know it’s, I know it sounds silly, but when, but when you had an expectation that it was going to be such an amazing highlight of your life to be on the couch with Oprah and now when you’re watching it, you’re embarrassed by the Canadians, which oddly enough is where clay, I first heard you, you know, in Canada. That’s hilarious. It full circle moment. And so I took a sabbatical five years and one night at two o’clock in the morning I could not sleep and I said it is time to forgive Canada and

what can I look at that just happened for a second. I just let it soak in. Just kind of a

Canada, we have no issues with you. I realized four or five minutes ago I have said some pretty hostile things up there and I know that you could allow yourself to drill oil. You could, you could do that and you could decrease that unemployment rate and I know you guys could, it is possible for you not to export your pop stars to us and you could get your own military that can defend itself. You could and I know that you have probably a wise reason for not doing so. So I said look you Canada back to jail,

it might be banned from everything. No Jill Donovan, just go with it with Ken and I am too. I just know they have a deeper, darker, more powerful reason for doing what they do. That’s killing the economy of Edmonton. Good Job Canada.

And I said, I, I want to start filling that closet back up with something. God given me an idea that I can start re-gifting myself. What does an idea of something I can create, fill that closet back up. And I, and I came to me, I used to work for American island airlines for many years and I traveled around the country and the world. And every country I would go to, I would purchase a cuff and not a handcuff that a bracelet cuff. The bigger, the better as a statement for a reminder, for the amazing memory I had in that country.

Where do you find a cough? I’m not, I’m not, uh, I’m not a cuff buyer. I’m a, I’m a dude. Uh, I’m kind of a man bear pig and more of a, if a dude is, you know, you can picture a dude. I’m a man bear pig, so I’m, I’m way not classy. No class at all. No class. Where do you get a cuff?

You get them like in a boutique store, you know, I mean, it didn’t matter just in any store we’re downtown.

Well I’m talking about out of the country I’m talking about right now. [inaudible] not, not, this is pre

rustic cuff now we just got a rustic cuff. We just find it in the rustic cuff.com but I’m saying back in the day, what’s a, where would you go to like is it kind of like a hipster store? I had all kinds. You’d go anywhere from, you know, sex with avenue to the little boutique on downtown and the more meaning it had behind it for me, the better. So I have this drawer full. I opened it up and I said that’s it. I’m going to teach myself how to make cuffs because I had been obsessed with them. Why don’t I teach myself how to do it, won’t tell anybody about about it. And then I will start filling this closet back up and then God, you can just take, you know, you can direct me as you want to. I’m tired of just not, I’m tired of not being creative.

I absolutely you do. Yes. And when you pray off of listeners out there that don’t pray or maybe pray and go, is this odd God? Oh God, what did you do? You hear back? Do you hear about you pray in here back? You know what? When I prayed that night it was as if, I know this is going to sound crazy but crazy. Every step I’ve ever taken is be is not because I’ve heard an audible voice. It’s because I feel like the light is just shining on the path and if it’s dark, I’m not walking down that path. If it’s light and the door is open, I walked through it and I always feel like God is just nudging me like this. Nowhere I have inside of me. It’s like a magnet. It pulls me to that and that night it pulled me to that drawer that I had the cuffs open it up and I sat down at the computer and I googled everything that I could find on how to make cuff.

I could not stop, I could not sleep. From that moment on. I was so determined to do this and not for money sake, not I did, I hated the word entrepreneur. Everything that had to do with entrepreneur had to do with work and my life up to that point, work meant something that I have to do in something instead of something I get to do and all I wanted in my whole life, all the reasons I did hobbies every year is because I just wanted to find something that I got to do. I wanted to wake up and say, I get to do this my whole life. All adults would always say have to go to work today, had to do this. Anybody out there cares at all. I know there’s one guy who cares out there, but uh, we had Daniel Rabbi Lapin on the show, which everyone cares about, but very few people like this part of the show. But the Bible originally west, have you read the Bible of your, where that book?

I had read the Bible so I wasn’t even a Christian. I’m just going there because I thought it was like a safe place to store my DJ gear and a safer environment. But I was going to, Oru wasn’t a Christian at the time and I had read the Bible. So I thought, okay, I’m gonna actually read this thing, take notes. And I discovered that book was written originally in Hebrew, the Old Testament, you know, and I thought, what? So I started looking up what words mean. And one of the words that blew my mind at the age of 18 was the word work in Hebrew means worship. Work means worship. And worship means work. And I was like, I don’t get it. So I met one dude who happened to, happened to be a very successful entrepreneur who is Jewish. And I said, I got to understand it in genesis. It says you’re supposed to work six days and rest on the seventh. It says in exodus as well. And it also says, work is worship. Can I please

understand this? You’re a Jewish guy. Everybody I know who’s Jewish is successful. Why? And he says, well, we work as under the Lord. It’s a worship thing. So it’s like we just do our best because that’s where supposed to do. It’s not like for money, but by the way, in Hebrew, the word money means certificate of appreciation. So we believe you get appreciated. If you do a good job and I’m going, it just blew my mind, the concept of work not being something I had to do, but something I wanted to do. That right there is a knowledge bomb for somebody cause you work. Now I know, Jill Donovan, that’s your worship. I watched some of those social media videos you put out there. You encouraged so many women. It is awesome.

Yeah. Well the funny thing is I grew up in a Jewish home. My mom and dad both Jewish. Oh, I got my ancestry taught results yesterday and I tell you what, it said my, I have a twin brother and he encouraged me to do it cause he had just done it it. I’ve never seen anybody’s that said 100% that mine said 100% European Jewish. Really? I know. I know that that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. Percent Mormon. Yes. I’m 110 yes, it came back the same, but I had heard that it was, there was a possibility that it could come back slightly different anyhow. So yes, I knew what you just said about work being worship. Yeah. But work for me was never worship. It was always something that I dreaded. And so now for the first time, this thing that I’m doing, creating cuffs and filling this closet back up. Yeah. It suddenly became worship off like I was worshiping God. He gave me the idea and I just did it with no clue why I was doing it. If I had a re, if I had to have a reason why I was so obsessed with this new work that I was doing, I couldn’t have started cause I didn’t have a reason why. No clue why I was doing this.

Just so you, you, you obsessed about rustic cuffs and the way that whole Kogan obsesses with the word, the use of the word brother. Let’s listen to the whole code

you’ve aware of hop test study. This is going to take its course, brother role. Brothers, crock brothers, brother, brother, brother, brother.

That’s how you obsessed about the rustic? No. Okay. Well before I allow you to interrogate Joe with more questions. Okay. Because remember, you’re, you’re an attorney so you’re going to get into that really good interrogation. Although the listeners out here can’t picture it, but we are interviewing Joe right now in a room with one light bulb. Um, it might sound like there’s an office of people around us, but that’s, that’s the sound of the water board getting ready. So get, get ready. So here we go. Um, how did you get big time celebrities? Well first off, let’s list the big time celebrities who have worn the rustic cuff. Let’s just fire off some of, if you’re not a name dropper, but I am. So you named dropped the names and then let’s tell us how you, how it happened. Cause I want to know about the luck, you know, with the strategy. Talk to us, I mean, big names. Who’s wearing rustic cuffs right now or who has worn them?

Well, I mean, who, who I think is big, may or may not be who you think is,

I think everyone’s big West is west as big, but small. You’re big, but small. Josh’s big was one small people, but big just personalities. Wow.

Let me just say this. This week, actually on Friday, we got a request for a custom cuff from a for really? Yeah. That was, that was exciting. Yes. Yes. Where I did it wasn’t from her, it was, I, I can’t say it was from sure, but it was, but it was from somebody who is, um, who is giving it to her, um, in two weeks. And they requested custom cuffs for Beyonce. And that was exciting. But, so some of the names, um, you know, this makes me feel uncomfortable, but I’m going to, do you remember Brian Adams from Canada? Yes. Everything I do, I do it for you. Okay. You’re doing this. I’m doing this for you. Rose water. Here’s some of my favorites. Uh, Harry Connick Jr Lionel Richie, Miranda Lambert, Michael Bublé. Um, Kathy Lee Gifford. I just, I love her. Um, uh, Cheryl Crow, you know, he named some of your favorites and I’ll tell you, Carrie Underwood, Carrie Underwood, I think you said Miranda Lambert.

Yes. A lot of country people. Trisha, your way. Tim McGraw. Anybody who was one of my favorites. Um, what about, hold up, hold on. Warn Hoda. Yes, Jenna Bush and a Bush. Um, really it’s really not for me. I just sat down and I said, who do I love and how can I get them a rustic cuff? Not because I want them to promote it and never asked them, but it became this really fun challenge for me. And so I had this big whiteboard like you have right there. And One night I sat down and I wrote everybody’s name and let me tell you, I didn’t have any money starting this company. I had $250 that I would go to the leather store, buy the stuff, and then I’d sell it for $38. Zero whether store. Yeah, Tandy leather. Like a lot of times I’ll say Andrew, you know I went to the toilet store and just as sort of a funny transition, but there is a lot, there’s an actual amazing leather store here in Tulsa called Tandy leather.

They’re biotech supplies, bought the supplies would come home, make something that would take me hours to make one and I said $38 for every one of them, no matter whether it took me five minutes or five hours. And because you know I was, this was, I was on a business, you know I was a communications major so I didn’t, it wasn’t about the money. I just wanted enough money to go back to the other store. I had my big whiteboard and I said I am going to get online and I am going to find out who every single one of their stylist agents or managers are. And I’m going to write them a letter. And in the letter, I’m going to start off by saying, my name is Jill Donovan and I am an adjunct law professor cause I knew if I wrote that they would read past that first line.

There we go. See that’s that is that if you’re listening out there today, this is where the passion meets the detail. Okay. The gap between your big vision and the execution of your vision are these details and if I’m just crazy enough and funny enough from time to time, maybe we can get the mic to this engaged and we’ll learn something while we laugh a little bit, but sure. So this is where the detail matters. This is the pithy little intro that’s big. I knew if I said I’m a stay at home mom and I love your client and I craft, they would just, they would that there’s, that’s actually a wonderful thing to do, but I knew that I had to have something to where they thought they were in trouble and wanted to keep reading. I’m going to use that line. I’m going to say that Clay Clark, when I jumped up,

professor and I want to have you on the move. I’m a stay at home mom. I’m happy on the go. They don’t offend anybody like this man clearly says he’s stay at home.

Thank you all pacers. I want to clear something up. I was a stay at home mom. I love stay at home mom. So I’m just saying to get them to read. I wanted to put some fear in them. Yeah,

no, I love them. But I think if I said a picture of me saying that I am a stay at home mom, I think people would respond. We don’t want to offend this guy with or her. Let’s get them on the show.

Okay, so sorry Joe, you’re welcome for that. And so I wrote every single, I signed up for the service that I found their email addresses. I wrote as many agents and stylists and managers as I could. And I sat back and waited for the emails to come right and out of, I don’t know, my first 40 that I wrote, I heard back from about 30 of them. Oh Billy, this is how, this is my very first one. It was from Miranda Lambert’s manager and he said, I will be seeing Miranda next weekend if you mail them to me here at this address. Wherever he was that he lived, I will. I will personally hand them to her because my, my email to him wasn’t like, I’m a huge time fan. I’m a huge fan of man. It was just a very basic, hey, I make custom cuffs on the side and I made one for your client.

And so I’ve researched every detail about all of these different people that I had watched on TV that had helped me create all these cuffs in the middle of the night. And I made each one of them eight to 10 cuffs and I knew that I did not want any of them thinking I made this in my back bedroom. These are big time people who have anything they wanted. I found a man who made the most amazing wooden boxes and had him put my logo on them. No sticker. I mean I’m talking carve my logo into the boxes. I looked like I was in the middle of New York City at some big time. Boutique store. Not In my back. Your air initial video you made for rustic cuff, by the way, is great. That video is hot. Which which one are we talking to? One was the subway. Oh Gosh. You remember

the dude on the subway with the rustic copies like a love story. That thing. I know it doesn’t play well because it’s an audio only show, but that video that, that’s a tear jerk. That’s so funny. That’s a good one. Everyone has to see that. You got to go look up rustic cuff on Youtube. Watch that thing. Now I’m going to give you a second just to prepare your question for Jill here as I dedicate this song to Jill, the thrill, 24 year old lady from Tulsa, Oklahoma, who’s built this great company called rustic cuff, who doesn’t want to name drop because she has, I dunno, class tact, you know these sorts of things. I’m going to dedicate this song here to Jill. Here we get it. Here we go. Joe, this is, this is for you. This is Bryan Adams. Our Canadian friends. Give me this number. Robin Hood. Robin, what a, what a great

show that was Kevin Costner. Not this one movie where you decided to act. Great job. Kevin,

back to you there. Back to you there with, so I’m curious, you know, you, you were started this new business. At what point did you realize this isn’t a hobby? You know, I need to, I need to start an LLC or a Corp. The lawyer in, he kicks in, I’m sure at some point saying, wait, Whoa, I need to probably get some ducks in a row here. This, this could be something. When my husband walked

in the bedroom and said, you haven’t fed our children in three days. He said, now you’ve, you’re selling these, right? And I said, yes. And he said, now you’re keeping track of, of everything you’re selling, right. And I said, absolutely. It’s all right here in this drawer. And he said, it’s time that, that we don’t get in trouble with the IRS in any way you need to. Um, it’s the one thing I remembered how to do as an attorney, trip killers, I LLC myself. Yup. And even then, but that, that was not exciting for me because when you take a hobby and you turn it into a job or your passion and turn it into a job, it loses its flavor. It to, I’ve seen it happen and I did not want that to happen to me and I wanted to keep it as my get to and get to, I wanted to keep it at that way, but I knew that I had to do the right thing and turn it into an actual business.

And I thought, okay, as long as I don’t hire anybody, then it will still stay a hobby for me. I don’t want to hire anybody. And somebody from ABC came through Tulsa and saw a picture of Miranda Layer, Miranda Lambert wearing it in somebody’s store and she said, who is this [inaudible]? And he was right. Not Him who’s Miranda? But who is it that’s making these cuts and why is Miranda wearing them? And they got my phone number, ABC, Good Morning America and said, uh, would you like to sell your cuffs on our show in two days? Get out of here special. How many can you make in one day?

I have a, I have a question that like four hours each at 1000 in a day. If I stay awake for a whole, I want to get into how you did that, but I want to, I want to take a quick little little side detour to ask you this question. West OGLs I get simultaneous. I want get Josh’s take on this too. So this is going to be like a three way triple threat question here. Okay. Um, for a lot of, if you’re members, you’re, if you’re a kid, um, and you’re about 40 now. Okay, 45 when you were a kid, your dad, he was a good guy. Mom was a great person and they would, we would, we would talk to each other’s weird Mama. Daddy would talk to you and you’re just, I know people can’t relate now, but you had talked to your parents and then your parents who would show up snubs not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet.

They would pick up, they would drive a car without a helmet west. It was crazy. They would show home. They’d come home. They hadn’t spent five hours on Facebook. They were actually at their job working, not on Facebook at work. I know that’s a controversial idea now, but they’re actually at work, working not on indeed or craigslist or Facebook. They’ll come home and they’re like, let’s go to blockbuster. Remember Blockbuster West? I do. And you’re going, blockbuster. Yeah, Dad, thank you. And he says, what? We’re going to do this because we don’t know about gluten and organic. We’re going to go get buttery popcorn, enough popcorn to kill a man. But we didn’t know it was bad. It was good to give you cancer to August. And we’re going to rent the Nintendo entertainment system, the power glove, the gun, the whole thing. And we’re going to play that thing for two consecutive days while we’re eating a one pound to Twizzlers.

All this coffee and big massive, you know the, those is oversized like movie theater sized candy. Yes. And you would play that game and you would play. Can you play yourself into like up into a sugar induced coma and you’re playing, you’re, you’re playing it and then your mom comes down there. Cause you don’t have, you don’t own the game. We didn’t have games 10 west right? You the game back. Yeah. So your mom’s like, oh you haven’t been outside for 48 hours. It’s almost Sunday night here, honey, you need to, we need to go to church for the second time today. So take it ties you, you kind of Zombie mode, go to your second service of church and you go and then you come back into, you’re just put 10 more minutes, just 10 more minutes you’re playing and it’s a game. You’re playing the game, you had a great time and then all of a sudden you go, crap, I’m 40 we’re all the blockbusters.

And I think a lot of people don’t view their life as a game. And for me, and you know this cause you’re my attorney, I view business as a game and I frankly don’t care about like if I lose, if I lost Nintendo or Mario, I didn’t cry. I took the high move. I was playing against you in a game like hockey, you know, and I was losing, I’d reset that thing. That was the high move. I was the ethical move. If you ever behind, you just reset, you don’t get mad, you just reset there. Got To get, gets mad. Right? But now as adults, a lot of adults don’t view it as a game. It’s like, oh my profession, what do I want to do? And someone at work laughs and people go, why would they laugh at work? Oh my gosh. And then you say something, how was your weekend Bob?

And Bob says, well I don’t want to offend anybody. It was good. And then Sarah was like, oh I’ve offended. I didn’t have a good weekend. Oh it was, it just was my weekend was Sarah, is that okay? Right. And give me a side hug, Bob. It’s so politically correct. So stupid. So afraid of offending west, his business, that game to you. Is it not a game? When did it not become a game? Talk to me about, you know, when, when life became real cause I think cause you enjoy your job, you take it seriously, you

enjoy it, man. Yeah. I mean I do enjoy my job and I’m one of the lucky few that probably enjoys practicing law because I have met a lot that hate their job practicing law. I love recovering attorneys as we call them. They’ve gone into a different profession. Um, you know, I don’t know if I’d say it’s a game to me, but you have to at least personally, I have to make sure I don’t wrap up my identity in my professional argue with you because eventually I’m going to lose [inaudible] argue with you. You will. You played games, you played sports, didn’t you? I do. You want to do when that sport didn’t you? I did. You played hard. You fight for your clients. I want you to do that all the time. Are you perfect? No, but I mean you fight. It’s a gay, you’re winning that game.

Yeah. But my personality, I played rugby in college, so I played rugby for four years and kind of like football. Most people would get like angry. They’d listen to angry music. They definitely don’t get that. People would always make fun of me because I’d be on the field knocking heads with people with this giant cheese grin on my face. Just loving it. You know? I just loved the game and that’s how I think a lot. I mean it’s, it gets nasty sometimes, but I enjoyed doing it. It’s called me working with you though. Cause you’re always like, here’s the situation, right? It’s not the end of the world. The world take care of it. If it isn’t the end of the world, we share the same face. You still have your family at home. You don’t go to heaven. Right? And well some people, well why is it, why is this represented me through some stuff?

And I can just say every time he’s calming and it’s, it’s a good energy. I started off the show talking about it. Your energy. I’ve only spent probably 15 hours with you in my life, but there’s this energy, the frequency I pick up on here. And I like it. And I think a lot of it too is who you surround yourself with. Your workplace, who you work with has such a profound effect on how happy you are. True. Um, and so that’s one of the things. If you’re the person hiring, you’re the entrepreneur. You got to understand, you got to get those downers out of there. Those people that are gonna think they turn to cancer and they just, everybody starts biting at each other’s tails and clicking up. And I mean, if you can get harmony in your workplace, not only be happier, you’ll be more productive. Well, Joey, now you’re in this Drake phase of your career. You’re at the delegate, elevate the whole deal. You’re listening to Drake everyday. Delegate, elevate. I go, you know, you’re not telling us all Joe was, I’ll have to drink

break. No, but you’re, you’re getting very good at the system. How many people can you share? How many people work with, with the roster covers the other six people, two people after that, one day on Good Morning America and sold 2000 in a day. And I knew that I could only make, you know, I very small handful. I started to have every friend I knew, every ex, boyfriend’s mother, you name it, any female, anybody, any male, anybody who could sit in my house to make these. And those people turned it into employees. And then it went from one to five to 20 and now we have 130 you know, one of my clients is right next to you, Chris. Patrick in lie. Oh yes, that’s my, that’s my den. Yeah. And I thought, and I’m just telling you, I mean if you want to do, you know, cause like a, what is it a Putin, he just moved in as tanks and he’s like, Hey, you know, we’re not taking over Crimea country.

We’re just good. We’re just occupying for a while. We’re hanging out. Oh look, it’s part of our country. You ever thought about doing that to the Kirkpatrick and line? Just taking over that your dentist, orthodontist, you should take over and you just move in there. I’m sure Joe would appreciate it when we leave here. We’ll go do that. Okay, so tell him, tell me now the, the game of business. Do you still have it like you don’t, I love it. Not what, and I know this sounds crazy and I know people are thinking that it’s not true. I told myself that if it got to a point where I just got back to that, I had to do that, then it wasn’t for me anymore. If it became a head too, and there’ve been some very difficult times, uh, mountains and valleys and every single day it is still a get to because I think when you fall in the middle of that thing, you’re passionate and mine does happened to be visited.

It could have been anything. It could have been rubber bands. It didn’t have to be cuffs. It was just getting to do this with the family of people and I can, I can’t, oh, I have to say this one part. When that closet got to overflowing, I still didn’t have any employees and I said, what am I going to do this because it is overflowing now I want, I’ve felt like I was supposed to start giving them away. Really? Yes. Giving re gifting them if you will. Are you against that old prophet thing, are you? Yeah, I’m a little Canadian and I decided I would take three at a time, put them on my left wrist, and I would go out wherever I was going, but you know, my, the course of my day and I would give them away and I would not come home at the end of the day until they were given away.

I ran into somebody who recalls you actually doing this. They can verify this or somebody I don’t know. Or somebody I know who knows you, who somehow that happened to them. Yes. They didn’t give it to you, but it was like a, and I think the, uh, one of my friends, his wife, she does some modeling. Uh, Ms Matheran there, Shalom. I fixed, she might’ve been in a room commercial [inaudible] show him. She’s beautiful. Yeah, I mean, so you still do that today? Still do it as, as do all my employees. But I w I have to tell you really quick about the first one. I went to the grocery store and I said, okay, this is the first time I’m going to give it away to a stranger and I’m not going to say I have a company named Russ to tough. I’m not. It was just not about that.

And I saw a girl checking people out and I said, that is the first one I’m supposed to random stranger. I’m supposed to give this bracelet away too. And I walked up to her line. There had been seven people in her line. I kept counting because I wanted there to be nobody in her line. And when I got up to the front of her line with some groceries, I turned around, there were still five people behind me and I very quietly pulled off the bracelet, handed it to her, and I said, I just feel like I’m supposed to give this to you real quick. The one of our listeners are having a hard time processing their habit was received. I’m gonna keep two audio clips and you tell me which ones sounded more like that moment. Okay, so you walked up again. She’s a cashier, is that correct?

She was a cashier. Did it sound, did it feel like, did it, did it kind of sound like this right here, kind of a little bit ominous? Was it kind of scary for me? Was she like, why is she walking close to me? And what does that feel like? That was, it was like that. Or was it, or was it more of like a no, I mean, how do you do it? One of the first one, when that music, the very first thing that you played was playing in my mind. I hand it to her and she started to cry, really broke down, started to cry. And then I turned around and looked at the people looking at me making this girl cry. And I said, ma’am, are you okay? And she said, I’ve never seen you before in my life. But yesterday I was diagnosed with breast cancer and while my, it was in the doctor’s office and he had just given me the diagnosis through my tears, I prayed and said, God, would you give me a sign of hope that is going to be okay?

And I looked down and saw that I had given her a pink one without even realizing it. And she looked at me and said, thank you for being that sign of hope. And it was in that moment that I knew that all the pain I had gone through and the embarrassment and the just shutting down of who I was, the creativity was all worth it for that one moment of this girl asking God for hope the day before in the grocery store. And from that moment on I said, okay God, I am totally yours. I will give bracelets away from now on till the day I die in every single person that works for me can have that ability to do.

Yeah. Let me Brag on Joe. We’ve, this is our first time to meet I think, but I prepped it a lot of charities. So I’m at a lot of charity events and rustic cuff has become a mainstay for the silent auction. The giveaways, smoke, and those things will raise more money than like a trip to Italy. True. Um, so I mean, right in the middle, right. So I’m just telling you, I think you’re donating a lot of that, you know, for charity and raising a ton of money through, through those kinds of things as well. I told, uh, I, I didn’t tell jail I was going to play this audio clip, but I have an audio clip. I believe it was procured. This is Jill fields when she gives away or something. So I’m going to keep this audio clip and then I’d like Josh, we’ll steal your mic just for a second here.

Not, not there, thunder. Just the mic. I’m going to queue up the audio here. Um, Josh is you, cause you have a company called living water. You named your company a certain way. You also believe in giving back and helping in the community. So I’d like you to talk about the business game in just a moment. I’m going to keep this audio clip and, and I, I ran this by, um, your, your assistant, your life coach, your best friend Jordan. Uh, bye bye. I didn’t look at her. I didn’t say it too it in mouth. That trip. I could feel that she was like, yes, play this. So this is audio what I believe to be Jill Donovan’s reaction to giving people rustic cuffs. How excited she is. So here we go. Let’s it up here.

Here we go. Oh Man. That’s called, I’m a maniac. [inaudible] and I’m gonna have jam. That has to be fall. Yeah.

Is that the wrong clip? Wrong? Kind of. I bet is that is it made a big splash. That’s what that was. Okay. So Josh, uh, you enjoy your job. It’s a, it’s a game. It’s fun for you. You like maybe not a game, it’s a sport. Maybe not sport. I don’t know what is, how would you describe, cause you love what you do. Oh yeah,

absolutely. Absolutely. Learned a long, long time ago about the a half two versus get to mentality. And I just choose what you like it. I love it. I adore it. I mean, I, I, it’s, it’s the game to me. So I, I love the sell. I love the satisfaction. I love the, the reviews. I love the domination. I mean, it’s not a really popular thing to say. So we are a Christian company, and I’ll jump to that in a minute, but I’ll talk about the other side. So I want everybody to eat. I want everybody to be happy and healthy and pay their bills. But I want to be the only sprinkler in the world. It’s just like a crusade for you. Yeah, I mean, so I want everybody to be healthy, but it’s, it’s to me it’s about winning. And now there’s a whole other side of our company and I have a very distinct calling.

I believe I was put here to make money to give it away. Uh, I read David Green’s book and, and, and, you know, giving all the way land, get on a call back. And I fully, fully, sincerely believe in that. But I also believe that if you play the game, you play to win. If we’re keeping score, then played a, when my son played hockey for a while and we didn’t keep score at the young age there, they’ve had the kids would get offended or upset or would cry or you go, you know, God forbid, go eat some gluten or something. If they lost and they’re like, no, we don’t want, we don’t want kids to go eat gluten, so we won’t keep score. We don’t want depression. And so kind of a bad thing but, but I do have an awesome question for [inaudible]. You ask a question you want there.

Okay. And then Western Oregon interrogate her about this book before she kicks us out here. Awesome. Here real quick Jill Donovan. So I know that you’ve been on for quite a while. Thank you so much. So I’ve, my wife loves your stuff and I’ve noticed as we’ve gone to the experience and all the things that you’ve super intentional about the packaging, super intentional, like the little pillows and the little, and I mean I don’t, it’s amazing. And, and my wife has every single one of them still saved name. Uh, her name is Amy. I love Amy. So, Hey, there is a shout out hunting. [inaudible] so, but anyway, with that being said, so I’m sure you were super thoughtful and intentional about that. So for a lot of people out there who are looking at brand recognition and branding their company in the advertising and the marketing that they do, what was the, what’s the best advice you can give people like us who are trying to build that brand

number from day one? I knew that if I met somebody and I handed them a business card that was flimsy and that was not up to par with who I really even wanted to be about, it wasn’t yet. That was all they would remember. Besides my interaction with them, that’s what they would take with them. So from the business card to the stationary, I would write them a letter on to the boxes. I was obsessed with giving them something that was never less than excellent that they would enjoy the packaging as much as they would enjoy the product because I had purchased up necklace and at the time I remember buying it, thinking this is like the most expensive necklace I have ever purchased for myself and they put it in an Organza bag and it’s weird. It devalued in my mind that necklace that I had just spent money that I had worked really hard for. And so I wanted the packaging to be so apple, but better than apple like that. You couldn’t throw it away.

Um, this is fun and I, we’ve been taught, I don’t think we ever talked about this before on video or, or on an interview, but um, Steve Jobs, uh, talked openly about, he wanted the, the iPhones to look the packaging to be so good that people would not want to throw them away and they wouldn’t know what you want. I just quote Steve Jobs I think you did through Osmosis and Elon Musk writes here, Elon Musk says, brand is just perception and perception will reality over

time. Sometimes it will be ahead. Other times it will be behind, but brand is simply a collective impression. Some have about a product and I would just say you got to take what Jill Donovan just said. Get the transcript of today’s show. Put that Hashtag put them on a tee shirt. Buy Some rustic cuffs. Can people auto-ship? Like if people want to buy a daily rustic cuff just to kind of auto ship, can they do that?

Yes, they can do that on a daily basis. On a monthly basis.

Okay. Now where’s Carter? We’ve got time for you to interrogate Jill Donovan with the two questions and I’ve got the time for one question for me to interrogate her. Then she’s gonna kick us out here.

Probably what, um, one of my questions would be is coming through those peaks and valleys to where you are now looking back, um, you know, someone who’s in a job they don’t like, you know, kind of in that Rut that we have had friends and family in. Um, what’s your best piece of advice as to how to make that decision? When, when to make that jump, how to make that, you know, what’s kind of that, does that decision tree look like when to when to leap, when to lie and told to make that leap of faith to follow a passion as opposed to staying in something you’re not enjoying doing.

You know, I think that most people don’t leap because they don’t think they are a qualified be have enough money and see that they will fail 100% they just don’t leap. And it is so much easier to stay in the job that I’ve had for 15 years because I have four weeks of vacation.

Come on back. I have worked for him.

I almost, I almost am going to get that fifth week. Why would I leave to do something that brings me joy? Why when I can do something that I am just fine with and I, I would say ask yourself the question, do you want to live the next 2030 40 years doing something that doesn’t bring you true joy? Because even if it is something like digging ditches, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter what it is. It doesn’t matter what it’s selling, rubber bands or litigating. It doesn’t matter what it is you can, if it brings you to true joy, I would start preparing to take the leap. Otherwise live in complacency

just like it’s like babies. You’re never ready.

I feel like I’d be like passive aggressiveness West is how I’m going to get Jill on the show again, so me just try it. It’s like this is a Papusas. I’m not actually doing this. This is what I would do. This is how I would do it. If I were to ask you if I read this book cover to cover, because the book is the Ford’s written by Mary Lou Retton. That’s the sarco historical. The kindness effect. Your book I You just gave me a copy. If I read this book, the kindness effect, the experience experienced the power of irrational giving. Will you be on the show again? If I do a whole show, breaking it down. Can you, would you do, would you be on if I just, I mean if I, if I were to ask, I’m not asking. I just, if I were hypothetically, if you were to ask, if you were to ask Joe, will you be on the show again?

I couldn’t say no. I can never say no to you. Yes. Nobody can say no to you. Yes. Have that weird power. Does it? I know, I know. I got married too. I’m like, hypothetically, love that. Love that and hate that about you. [inaudible] time. So this book, the kindness effect, a lot of people are going, you know, hey, this book I want to buy this book. It’s about, it might be $20 $15 that’s a lot of regrettable burrito’s I mean, I’d have to not go to Taco Bueno twice. I mean, why me? Why should someone invest in this book? What’s this book all about?

Book is separated in three sections. The first is the story of how rusty calf got started. Some of which you heard today. Yeah, but not all the details. The second section is a quote from one. Every chapter is one of my favorite quotes and it tells stories like one of the quotes that we put on a cuff says one day at a time, it’s our number one sold cuff one day at a time. What’s your can vouch for this legally speaking, I’m not quoted anywhere near this book you’re on. You’re on chapter eight and underneath every quote are some amazing stories and not just from things that have happened in my life or my business, but other people, uh, that I, that are in my life or that I’ve come into contact with. And it is a really great easy read but you leave. And the third, third one is about how to put it into action.

Part one is the story. Your story. Yes. Part two is about all the quote cuffs we make and the stories that are based off of those. And then third is how you apply it, how, how rational generosity actually changes your life. Andrew, I know how the publishing industry works and I want Jill Donovan to make a one or $2 right now. So go on Amazon, buy the book. Her life coach is here with us, Jordan River. She’s watching and judging it. Reffing. Get the book right now. Buy It. Leave a review about how, what a great American Jill Donovan is. And I will read this book and I will not reach out to you again. I won’t have anyone until I’ve read the book. I’m of highlights everywhere. And this might be a long form. This might be like a Charlie rose. This might be like American history. This might be like a 10 part series. But I’m, I will, I will have questions for you and I admit to reading all of your buttons.

He will, he’ll have a highlighted Aleve and noted and dogeared can I, I have to, I can’t leave here without telling you the final full circle moment. Can I tell you them jealous? Three or four years ago, it might’ve been four years now. I got a letter from the Oprah show. Had not been any contact with them and it was a, it was the magazine March issue of that year and it said, Dear Jill Donovan, thank you. Um, uh, I wanted to tell you that you’ve been chosen to be on the rest of, has been chosen to be on the risks of Oprah for our march issue. Get out of here and had not sent her things. And when I looked down at the cuff, it was a cuff that her best friend, Gail King would wear on the CBS morning show. And I just decided to put the pieces together myself. And imagine that Gail King, we gifted that cuff to Oprah and now Oprah, without even knowing it, knowing the story, I’d never, I don’t need for Oprah to know the story. It wasn’t this, none of that was her fault, but she is wearing a re gifted cuff on the cover of her magazine and it was God’s way of saying you’re right where you’re supposed to be.

That right there is amazing and I’m going to give you 4,000, 716 mega points right there in l a Wes, uh, you have the final question for, for Jill Donovan The thrill I think, you know, from, from our listeners

standpoint, um, you know the about great answer on, you know, the time and to taking that leap of faith. What about just other business advice? I mean the, the, the book will tell them all about, yeah, the generosity is part of it. But starting a business all on your own and watching it grow, when those growing pains, I mean, all the things you must have gone through from starting to now. What’s one thing you would tell someone that’s in those infant stages about, hey, if I just had this in my ear or this one thing, I would’ve done different. And what’s a good little nugget of information for listeners

who, if you’re thinking about starting a business or if you are and you’re stuck, you only have the capacity and the talent to do so much. I would surround yourself with people who are excellent at the things that you know, you are not whether or not you pay them or whether you just, just, I mean, there’s so much that you can listen to now, but even just listening to Clay’s podcast is so life-giving for people who are stuck. But I would surround myself. If you look around in your circle, are not life giving people and speaking into helping you move forward, then you’re around the wrong people.

And statistically, this is not maybe encouraging, but I want to encourage you because I promised it’s not that hard. But, um, in America today, we have about 327 million people ish. Um, right now. And according to Forbes, uh, about one out of 10 of you will start a business this year and a nine out of 10, none of our listeners, but nine out of 10 people who start a business fail. And when you look at why they fail, and I’ve read so much, so many studies about this, basically you get you, you discovered that 1% of Americans will have a successful company. And you go, well, why did they fail? What happens is when you start a business, you have to understand that success is centric. It’s not normal. It’s not the default. You just can’t work like an employee and own a business. You can’t put the half level of passion in and get the whole result.

You’ve got to it. So you’ve got to surround yourself. Your network is your net worth. And when you’re around people who are at that frequency of a West Carter, who is not a typical attorneys, what I, how I described them as, he’s not a typical attorney. They say, what does that mean? I said, he doesn’t talk down to me. He’s kind. He’s very courteous to my wife. He is responsive. He loves his wife. He always speaks favorably of his wife. Check that out. He always speaks favorably up his wife. When you’re around people like Jill and Josh, it is so fun. It’s just fun. Life is fun. It’s great. It’s like a blasty blast. It’s like a third grade birthday party with a GI Joe theme. The whole thing is great, but it’s not great when you’re around people that are negative. No Man, no matter how much money you have, am I correct Jill?

No matter where you go, no matter where you go, skiing or camping, if you bring negative people, does it not ruin it? I’d rather be alone. So you’re around great people and I just want to say big shout out to the rustic cuff team. 130 great people. Amazing. How many a males did you hire to? I’m sorry about that. I’m, I’m behind the wheel man. I’m sorry you had to hire those two cause we on the other team, man, we don’t have a plan. We’ve been chasing women around for years and we don’t know what to do once we catch them. I’m sorry. We lock into it. We love men. I know you do. I’m just saying we’re trying to upgrade what we’re West knows. We’re trying to work through it right now. We’ve got some stuff we’re dealing with, but we’re men. We’re, we’re on the verge, right?

We’re west are on the verge and eyes. We’re just lucky to have good women behind us to keep us inductors, e’s given our wives the wrong prescriptions. Just like my wife and his wife had the wrong ones, they’d swap. And so my wife hasn’t seen me for a couple of decades. Really. It’s working out great. Thanks Dr Z. And uh, Jill got to in each and every show with the boom, which stands for big, overwhelming, optimistic momentum. And so now that he further ado, Wes, are you ready? I’m ready. Andrew, you’re not Mike, but are you ready? That’s impressive. Uh, Jordan River. Are you ready? Okay. And Joe, are you ready? I’m not ready. Cause there was one question you said you were gonna ask and you missed it. And it was my favorite question. Oh, I like that. Ask every person that comes on here, this question and I was so ready for it.

I know it was going to screw this up. No, no. Um, I do like to ask people superpower question. Well idiosyncrasies and okay. Okay. Um, you’re just so interesting. I, I, there’s so much to cover. Um, okay. Here we go. Steve Jobs. Where’s the same thing every day? True or wore the same thing every day. He still wears the safety right now cause he’s dead. Uh, Elon Musk. Uh, can I be centric guy kind of antisocial. Um, most of the people we listened to on this show tend to wear the same thing or eat the same thing every day. They have kind of idiosyncrasies that allow them to have these, they’d come there, they become their, their, their superpower. Like it’s like Trump always wears the Trump outfit, you know, and he’s got the Trump test to care hair that if you had a friend with hair like that, you’d say what’s gotten into poppy, but he’s got that hair.

Um, what is your idiosyncrasy that your super power that allows you to achieve massive success? You have two of them. Really? Yeah. Wow. They wear two pairs of spanx every day and I go once a week to get my hair done and so I save the time of washing and drying and styling it every day, once a week, eight hours, because I only go once a week and it stays the entire week. Long Devil spanx hair once a week. Once a week I save hours, so let’s say naturally straight, no idea. Then I go get it done once a week, like I’m 85 when you don’t get your hair done like that, do you naturally have kind of a Jerry curl look or what’s your natural look? So it’s like out to here. It’s so, it’s just big. Didn’t recognize me. It’s big. Yeah, it’s big here. It’s big, but it’s once a week. It has saved me probably eight hours a week. Really? Yeah, eight as a whole workday. I mean, it’s a half shot day for you, but for most people it’s a whole workday. Flora. She just saved, said blooming out there how many hours a week? Eight hours a week by going once a week to get it done. That right there is game changing right there and so now I think we’re ready to end the show with a phone devils banks

here once a week once. Are you psychologically ready now? Yeah. I’m just, I got to go find some spanx now.

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